Outsourcing work has been boost the Source of some of the greatest Satisfaction and frustration in our Carrier is not get it right and it’s Like magic you trade some money for some Work being done better than you would Have done it and it just runs perfectly Get it wrong and it can wreck your Business it’s especially true when You’re outsourcing SEO where Unrepairable damage can be done by Shitty and scrupulous providers which is Why outsourcing SEO is such a Challenging path so in today’s episode Mark and I are going to give you some of Our best tips to outsource all or some Of the SEO work you’re doing let’s get Started everyone welcome back to the Authorial podcast today I am is probably The most qualified person to talk about Today’s topic no probably not the most Let’s not let’s not get exaggerated Rather one of the one very qualified Person to talk about this topic we’re Gonna be talking about outsourcing SEO And I’m gonna be with mark my co-founder We have had an agency that we started Like 10 years ago I I hate saying 10 Years ago I feel like so old I don’t Know how you feel about that or old now Shut up anyway yeah we started that we Went for four and a half years probably Two years long too long to be honest for My liking I think I wish we transition
To authority sites a little bit earlier But it is what it is and you know you Make mistakes and so we can share the Mistakes and so you don’t make them yeah Like I will say we got a crap ton of Experience to working on all sorts of Different sites in all sorts of Different situations with all sorts of Different people and I think the god I Don’t know how many clients who worked For in total probably like 300 years I Mean we just got so such a broad range Of experiences good and bad and I think That makes us especially you qualified To really talk about this because we’ve Been on that side of the fence and also Through our authority sites through Outsourcing various pieces of work Through working with agencies working With freelancers hiring people you know We’ve seen it seen it from both ends of The spectrum so wholly we can give some Good insights here I must say it was fun Like walking on like 99 designs of For example used to this year for the I’d like the analytics etc I could check Everything it was like really Educational it’s not what I prefer doing For work but I I understand that these Videos were quite useful still wish for Transition maybe a year or two for sure I’m not say that but yeah so let’s talk About also singers here because I think A lot of people who listen to this they
Either have agencies and they can take The feedback or they are looking to Outsource unless you work like a lot of Like authorized Iona’s want to outsource Team building for example I think that’s A big one but even like content creation And all these things like a lot of Things will apply to that as well and I Think there’s a lot of nuance and and And it’s also a lot of in in This area and I think I want to talk About this because when I see some sales Pitches exit I just I go crazy so I Think it’s gonna be an interesting one Before we do that I think what’s gonna Be even more interesting is when people Click on the like button below if they Are watching on YouTube I I saw a Correlation study that says that people Click on the like button actually rank High on Google so people should probably Do that I need to subscribe then it’s Like you get a few snippets so you know Probably should do that but let’s do it Let’s get going by the way we also have The podcast on the audio platforms so if You on Spotify if you have on iTunes if You on soundcloud on Google podcasts or Any other podcast platform you can just Search for the authority hacker podcast And you can get the audio version of This podcast which can be convenient to Listen to in your car something that if Now you know you are on iTunes you
Probably very rich because you have a Time machine isn’t it Apple podcast now Yeah it’s a podcast it’s just everyone Calls it a tune anyway but like it’s Called podcasts on the iPhone actually Not even a full podcast um But all you have a very old Mac or iPod Touch or whatever yeah anyway let’s get Started with this list I’ll let you pick The first point actually so the first Point is don’t hire someone or an agency To solve SEO to go away and do SEO while You just focus on your business SEO it’s So engrained into everything you do I Mean imagine if we are thority hacker Comm just hired an SEO agency like would They they be able to capture our voice And like the way we communicate in this Podcast would they be able to read Would they be able to reach out to People in the industry that we know and Say hey can you link to us we’re some Random SEO agency no and the same apply It’s not just because we’re in internet Marketing this the case is because SEO It’s so engrained into everything that a Company is doing it’s very hard to Outsource it all completely and even if You find an agency who’s very very good At doing it and there are those out There and is willing to get very deeply Involved and can just magically figure Out everything you need to know there’s This kind of motivation from an agency’s
Perspective like think about where that What that is It is to get you to the next month so You’re just happy enough right it’s not To transform your business from 0 to 10 Million dollars a month because you’re Just paying them like most cases unless They’re on a kind of like reward basis In most places you’re paying them a flat Fee their motivation is to get paid is To do just enough to keep you satisfied To show you some promise to show you Some results to prove that what they’re Doing is worthwhile and so that they Will keep paying month after month but Imagine it from their perspective right They have 50 clients and they have a Different budget for each client maybe And they’re gonna look at each client See how much results is this one getting How much results is this one getting how Much results is this one getting and if One clients lagging behind and they’re Like oh I’m not so happy why am I Getting results why is my traffic on That they’ll put more effort in there But that’s to the detriment of the other Clients or they like oh they’re fine That we’d all so worried about them we Don’t have to work so hard this month We’ll just kind of keep them keep them Coasting along so you you end up by Outsourcing SEO this way you end up kind Of going towards this weird kind of okay
Ish equilibrium to fulfill your effects Right they should balance it out which Can be good or it can be kind of okay But it’s never going to transform your Business it’s never going to really get You to like an amazing Growth level it’s just gonna kind of be Alright and that’s why I think Fundamentally SEO should be something Which is which is a core competency Which is part of your your business or You can still hire people to help you do Parts of it but if you just think you Can not not learn it not understand it Not have to worry about and just get Someone else to do it that’s that’s not Really the case yeah I think there’s two Issues that you did so the first one is Essentially you become part of a Portfolio which is all the clients that They are managing and their goal is to Essentially drag the most value through The portfolio which doesn’t mean it’s Always the best for your individual Business because the only one point in Like many points in the inner graph and They just try to average it out so it’s Very hard to like get aggressive growth From a company from an agency rather They will be really good at fixing the Low-hanging fruits identifying like Things that have worked for them in the Past and so and to that extent I think It’s great if there’s something that
You’re not good at especially if it SEO I think you would get a lot of benefits Especially in the first few months Usually because they identify these Little hanging fruits etc so usually you Work with an agency and you get like Nice gross at the beginning and it kind Of like slowly plateaus as they have Addressed all the low-hanging fruits That they have experience with it’s also It’s also because SEO is kind of Disliked art more than a science Sometimes and a lot of clients are a bit Skeptical of it I was bit a bit Skeptical of an agency’s ability to Perform so they’re they’re really Motivated in that first three three to Six months to really get some Low-hanging fruit quick wins and prove That what they’re doing is worthwhile so They can say hey Luke since you hired us We’ve increased traffic by 20 percent or Whatever but I think in reality and it’s Just because no SEO has been done or Very little has been done before that It’s it’s quite easy to come in for Anyone even the basic amount of Experience to come in and just say like All this tweak a few things here and There and it’s gonna start you know Working a little bit it’s like if you go Outside in the rain the 10 worst rain Jackets in the world are gonna keep you More dry than just going out on a
T-shirt kind of thing yeah I mean I Still think this value is just like it’s We have a lot of friends that do that Right they hire an agency and then they Just hire for like six months They just get the low hanging fruits and Maybe sometimes this work because Another agency might have like some Other competencies that they can bring Etcetera I think the other point that You made that I wanted to address as Well is that you can’t just get SEO done Without giving it any mind share you Need to it’s like if your competitors Actually care about this it’s like we Were discussing about this for link Building we were looking at like some Name building stuff for us and we Identified opportunities but like our Competitors like out doing the eat at The name they like the face of the Website and the other guys that actually Do it extra and we had discussion like If we just even get someone from our Staff to do this it’s not gonna get Nearly the same effect as we would get If we actually got involved ourselves Gave it some 9 share and we’d probably Like be able to get on more prestigious Places and get these big links that move The needle etc even if it’s like some Degree of involvement so I think the Idea of like I can just give you a pile Of money and that’s it it’s done I don’t
Need to think about it doesn’t work very Often and there’s a lot of bad stories That come from these things and often That also translates into a lighter Hiring process for the people that do That and then you will end up with less Good people that will promise you a lot Of things are really good at selling but Not necessarily good at delivering and It’s a bit risky so that’s the two Things basically you can’t just do SEO Without mindshare and you become part of A portfolio of clients where the agency Wants the overall portfolio to go up not Just your individual company and Sometimes it means if you’re doing well If you’re on top of the pot for they Might try to push up the people that are The bottom instead of trying to actually Push you up which is why achieving Aggressive growth with an agency is Often complicated unless unless you Agree on deliverables and not results Which i think is a big one as well you Can agree he stopped saying I want to Rank up in Google you can agree I want 50 guest posts and then well then it’s Just up to you to see like what the Quality of the guest posts are but if You agree on 50 guest post you most Likely get 50 guest post and then you Take essentially the strategy part on in On the inside of your company and just Outsource the pieces of work which tends
To be my preferred way of doing thing These days and I still still has other Issues Like quality control and stuff so you’re Gonna get that something you can Completely outsource the mind chair part Of it so because of that like the way I Pika service provider as an agency or Like any service provider for like link Building for example it’s it works very Much on like the interpersonal level for Me so I found that the service providers That we worked with where I could not Get a good connection we rarely were Successful in projects but the people That could make the deadlines and we Could have regular calls and almost act As if they were part of our team like They own our slack and we chat wisdom Etc it works a lot better than like when We keep the conversation to email and It’s very distant and we agree to only Talk once a month or something like I’ve Quite struggled with that because it’s Like I just end up getting what they Decide and not what I want and I’m not I’m losing control basically and and for Me that has worked better so I tend to Really care about interpersonal Connection I care about people making Deadlines and making calls and overall Just like having it’s like it’s a weird One it’s like a gut feeling basically And like also then being technical
Enough like I can have a technical Discussion with them and they don’t Contradict themselves which a lot of Providers will do and you can catch them Really quickly when you get a bit Technical for me it’s very much they Have to call things as it are as it is I Get very anxious around people that Overhyped things and are kind of like Aren’t accurate and how they’re Assessing or just describing things Sales people like such people for Agencies Oh God so I guess check my hand It’s like you know and even software Companies do that right for example um Like I remember I got a sales go with Market News which is like a very Expensive kyoto basically and same they Tried to me with their AI stuff Etc without really telling me how stuff Works except I’m like guys I just like Give me the tool like III pretty sure I’ll be able to use this let me use this And all just tell me how I actually Works and where the numbers come from And it’s like it’s so frustrating what If you felt like that but I think it Works because otherwise they wouldn’t do It some people get convinced but I think The people that get convinced that the People that tried to outsource Everything without sinking its kind of Like the same population which tends to Be like high level
Co-ceos that don’t really want to care About the tech stuff etc and end up Wasting often a lot of money I think It’s more uh it’s like a different part Of a sales cycle kind of thing so you Know if if someone doesn’t know they Want they need SEO tell yeah I am you Know data algorithm so ever is like it’s Useless you need to like sell them on The dream and like hey you can increase Your leads and duh and and you know tell People these examples and stories and And all that versus us like maybe we’re Just a bit more jaded as yeah I Mean that’s probably part of it as well We are pretty jaded having seen just how How this industry really works and in Many cases I agree and I think being Readied let’s talk about something that A lot of people maybe not realizing is That the person you’re talking to is not A person doing the work at pretty much 99% they might be like overseeing it Checking it once a week type thing but They’re gonna outsource it and they’re Gonna outsource it to some people that You wish did not touch anything on your Business sometimes and you’d like you You will not be happy and basically That’s how these folks right they charge You Western prices and then they might Also in the Philippines I’m not saying Everyone in Philippines is bad by the Way a lot of people are really good in
The Philippines but they might outsource To teams that are like less they haven’t Talked to you so they don’t get this Firsthand understanding of your project Of your business etc and they’re going To start writing articles for guest Posts so like they will start writing Blog content or they will start making Changes your title tags so they will Stop doing these things and essentially Tweaking physical things physical things Things that you can see on your business Without having the level of Understanding of what you actually ask Your project manager or the person that Sold to you and I think that is often a Problem and you will very often find a Disconnection between what you agreed on With the person you talk to and what Actually gets done and I think to me That is the main problem with Outsourcing to people it’s like I get on The phone we will agree and we’ll be Friends and I’ll be like well that Sounds great I think that’s a good deal Etc and then The execution of things will just be off You know like the the title type would Be returning like there would be five Exclamation marks at the end it’s just Not this time we’d want to have all you Know like an article will be like very Very generic we agreed that they would Do a guest post on the DR eighty site
And I find this dr eighty site is just a Guest post form that still idea and Happens but it’s kind of um and and I think it’s it’s a it’s a huge problem And i think very often you get what you Pay for as well here and as you start Realizing the value of it And very often you don’t get what you Pay for we often you pay a lot and you Get work anyway and so it’s this is What what the one thing that scares me The most is like i often agree with People by rarely end up getting what I Want mostly because the work is passed To someone and sometimes that source to Other companies etc and it just ends up Being a giant chain where we saw guest Posts right we were getting all those That were like false level all those From other agencies yeah so so I mean Five six seven years ago now we we did At one point up to a thousand guest post Months we in our agency and the majority Of our clients were other agencies some Of them who were like our clients were Clients for another client who was Client for the website itself so there Was like two people between the client And us taking a cut and then like and Neither no one further up the chain you Have far this was being outsourced which Is kind of crazy when you when you think About it not just up information like The information we were getting from
These agencies was like a nothing like I’m sure that they had like a really big Meeting with the initial client etc like You know we for big brands you know and There was like a lot of agreements Etcetera and then when we were getting Like essentially like Street three links Down the road we were just getting Everyone’s five guest posts on there are 60 Plus sites it’s like you can see how The information goes from like quite Refined to like shittier and shittier as It gets repeated and people lose Information and that’s the part where You don’t get what you want as a client And it’s like I don’t blame us because Honestly we were getting so little Information and honestly a lot of these Agencies didn’t give a about giving A small information anyway And and that’s that’s the problem it’s Like if it wasn’t one of my sites I Would get an adventure like it’s like if I get results I probably like still do It for a while but I’d be looking for The solutions because of that you know I Don’t know what you think about that Yeah I mean I just in general I expect The work done in this space is going to Be outsourced to to some level so if I Care about quality I’m very clear in Asking you know who is going to perform Each of these tasks who and your team And you know it’s quite it can be quite
Obvious sometimes if it’s been farmed Out especially one like content you know If the actors inconsistencies there it’s The way someone writes is very kind of Personal to them and you can often tell When it’s been been farmed out elsewhere But it’s yeah unfortunately a very Common thing especially you know again With content you know you have a writer Who who does great for a few months and Then it’s like oh can’t be bothered any More or less less farm out to someone Half the price and just keep the money For no work and that’s the problem as Well without sauce work is it gets Passed on to many different people so You might be talking to the same person But that person passes the walk on to Like a new team every week or something Alike it changes very often and you will Find massive variations in quality Sometimes for the better and sometimes For the walls and so it’s yeah it’s it’s Also problem like it’s like you need to Understand like I would ask who’s doing The work what is it can I interact Directly with the people writing the Articles that kind of stuff I cannot Give them direct feedback are they gonna Be stuck to my account and am I gonna Get the same person or is it just very Low etc and and usually that’s what you Find a big price differences like for The same deliverable which you try to be
Like I’m I’m usually I’d save money on a Lot of things like I have like a $5 T-shirt right now but it’s one of these Things where you will see that well the Chief of people like they have to cut Corners to actually make the prices that They are charging and the problem with SEO is it’s it’s kind of like a zero-sum Game right it’s like in the end if your Computer is trying harder it doesn’t How much you spend if they outrank you They just get more of the traffic you Know and and and so understanding in SEO Is sometimes a mistake you know so Anything else on his pointer you want to Take the next one No so the next one is someone from your Hometown will not necessarily do a Battery job a lot of tends to be older People more traditional businesses they Want to work maybe because they they Fear the problem in the previous point They want to meet that person and I know Them and really get a sense of that Individual and whether they’re they’re Going to be good to do do business with And while that feels nice and it can be Add a level of comfort and reassurance That you can at any time you know go Into their office and complain if Something goes wrong ultimately that London or Manhattan office is expensive And you’re gonna be paying for the the Hire you’re gonna be paying for that and
Not only the the fixed cost but their Higher wages in those places through Higher cost in your SEO or if you’re Getting billed the same amount then You’re gonna get less done because they Have to make they have to make money Somewhere and it’s just a fact it’s just A fact of this industry that it’s very Easy to do a lot of work remotely I have A friend who has an agency works for Local businesses in the US and he lives In Europe but nobody knows that because He he pretends that he has a know who to Tell us a u.s. office would like a phone Number and is like always making sure to Like respond during working hours in the US and all that kind of stuff because These types of clients that he works for That’s something that’s important to Them but does it doesn’t mean that the Quality of the work is is better or Worse like not always there’s not really As I don’t think a very strong Correlation between that where I live in Edinburgh in Scotland like I have a look At marketing agencies SEO and stuff and Space just it’s kind of like curiosity And honestly like it doesn’t look like They really know what they’re doing and Why should it you know why should the Fact why should where you live make a Difference to your ability to do SEO Yeah so would you based on that logic Would you out socio all your SEO work to
India no because I think there’s a Stereo there’s definitely a stereotype That Indian SEO czar bad I think there’s Some good war and I think that’s born Out of the fact that everyone who has a Website guess like four emails a day From an Indian SEO company and I think Most of them probably are not not that Great people people doing this certainly We’ve hired not just SEO but like ads People and stuff from from India in the Past and like we hired a you know some Kannada nathalia hackers written by an Indian writer that we really good he Quit actually I wish we still had him so So yeah so the looks of learning from This is that it’s more about your Quality control purposes be that you Know assessing agencies or if you know You’re hiring someone a writer in the House how you screen those how you work With them how you how you manage them How you check check quality that’s much More important than you know the country Someone’s someone’s based and of course You know if they’re in Australia and It’s like hard to communicate time zones And stuff it can be logistically a bit Challenging or whatever yeah But in general we’ve had a lot of Success hiring and outsourcing from from Cheaper countries so should do right Yeah I want a caveat that I mean yes but I want to caveat by saying don’t just go
Hire the first person that applies you Will probably get more more worse people Applying from these places so you have To work harder in order to find the good People yeah I would agree with that Designer we use as well on the toy actor For example and some other sites he’s From savvy as well so it’s like it’s it Work so it’s it’s perfect and it’s a He’s Is better than many UK designers of folk Words so so yeah I think I think you can But you also need a stronger critical Sense towards the work because let us Develop places have like less developed Market places it’s okay it’s like you Know when the market will be at the same Stage in developed countries it looked The same as well so you just need to Like have a strong filtering effect but Like the essentially the ones in these Countries are like well Internationalized we could English with English content to educate themselves Etc can be extremely good value and it Tends to be the kind of service Providers that we hire for ourselves Provided we put a really strong Screening before we hire them let’s talk About the price it’s a tricky one Right because pricing SEO it’s like how Long is a piece of string it’s like you Can piece price it based on the value People get or you can price it on the
Cost of factors that’s usually the two Ways you you pricing this like how much Does it cost us to manufacture and do What percentage of profit modeling do we Apply on top or like how much value does That bring to people and SEO agencies or SEO service providers they will do books Right some of them will be priced pretty Aggressively because they’re like well If you rank so high especially they will Price you different for different ages For different industries because of that Because they can guesstimate how much Value you will get from that and Essentially charge you more for the same Walk so it’s a bit of a tricky one and So that’s why I tend to prefer walking On deliverables because I can make a List of things I’m gonna get I’m like Okay here’s the list of since I’m Getting his how much I’m paying here’s The detailed price per item and then What I can do is I can literally take The same list of items without the Prices and give it to other service Providers and see how much they charge And get a feel for like what is the Market price and it’s hard to tell you Like all you should pay 150 bucks per Guest post and you should be paying like $50 for skyscraping It’s quite hard because I think and it’s Something that I mentioned earlier is How it’s done
Um you can’t just say a guest post all Guest posts are the same right you can’t Like some guest posts out on well with Content that you’re not ashamed to share On your social media and some content Some guest posts Made we spun content on sites that Dropped on Google from the Medicare date And you probably don’t want that link And the content makes you feel a little Bit ashamed if you were showing it to Your employees or your clients you know So there is a price to that and I think That’s why so how to determine is am I Paying a fair price for my SEO service Or not and it also depends on your Tolerance to these things maybe you Don’t give a maybe you just want Some things to rank and like you don’t Care in this case maybe like hire like a Little lower price services or better or Maybe you’re trying to build a brand and You want to make sure that we forego Your brand you don’t find really shitty Stuff and they don’t call you out for Cheating on Google and report you and do All these things and you want some clean Thea which I would recommend if you’re Trying to build something a little bit Bigger and in this case then the cheaper Service providers will probably not cut Not make the cut and you will probably Need to spend more money very often out To double the money that the budget
Providers will charge it I think on Price yeah I mean just in general be Very like careful like what you’re Negotiating for exactly I remember when We were running an agency and rather Than promising deliverables although we Did kind of have that like we had Essence in essence what we were selling People was the dream of yeah I our Rankings are more immortus we have two Services we had one that was selling the Links and we had one that was selling Consulting yeah Like most most people in consulting Bracket they they were not technical People they didn’t know what they needed So they needed us to tell them that and They were essentially trusting us that We were going to get the more traffic And get the more leads or more not and It was quite common that they would push Back on price for something like that And you know from our perspective it’s Like well what are we gonna do like it You know it we quoted 3,000 the only Ones to pay mm so we’ll just give him $2,000 worth of stuff but like they they Don’t have in their mind that all that I’m gonna get less links I’m gonna get No again as much consulting for that They just might oh I’m still gonna get More more traffic and more leaves but It’s The last money so that’s a way yeah so
It’s kind of like negotiating from Ignorance kind of thing I mean it Depends on your budget as well I think You shouldn’t overspend if you can’t Spend the money but basically what we Had is at the beginning of the month I Remember we had the list of clients and We had a list of activities okay when Our consulting is like a hundred dollars A guest post is like 150 and I don’t Know like a blog post is you know 80 or 90 we just like have all these items and You take their budget and then we would Just like assign items to the account And be like okay well this account is Gonna get for blog posts it’s gonna get Eight guest post it’s gonna get five Hours of consulting so we can fix their Own page and maybe we’re gonna do Technical what it as well to make sure That they like there’s no crazy Redirects and we can maybe save some Name juice from 404 pages etc and then That’s it there’s there’s your two Thousand dollar button if you have three Thousand and we would put more items Into that and it was kind of like you Know when you go to market and they ask You how much meat you want and just cut It out for you you know like it’s kind Of the same so it’s that’s how most Agencies seem to work I remember we took Two and roof with from voltage ratio as Well and it did work model is the same
And I think a lot of like smaller Agencies walk that way and would just Give you what you pay for so you can pay For it all you just give a little walk Um the question is like how much you Need to be competitive which is very Hard to measure because very often when You hire these kind of services you kept Trying to catch up with computers that Have been doing SEO for you so you tend To need some aggressive investment at The beginning at least for the ketchup Process and after that maybe you can Maintain etc but unless they have some Really good queues Reggie or they can go Around and find some better keywords Etcetera but yeah it’s that’s basically How price is what do you go for the next One Yeah so the next one is refused and These sites that claim to kind of rank SEO agencies Barmes they’re all We were number one in UK at some point You know it’s like there was a site up For this number I didn’t think it was Top SEO or something like yeah I could Be wrong on that don’t don’t quote me Well basically there are these sites out There that The business model is they will I mean For us it seemed almost random that you Could get like ranked and in this list Of top international SEO Zoar top Industry a SEOs or whatever and there’s
That if you go on some of their sites Not all of them but some of their sites They actually have the ability to apply And then there’s like a fee a fee so That they will like consider it and this Kind of thing this is all like very very Sketchy I think these sites can rank for best I Don’t know I said you know the best SEO Agency in a city or like best best is And that industry SEO like I don’t know Try anything like best Why kind of think of a single SEO Industry best sunglasses SEO or whatever And then they’ll rank people who are the Best at doing SEO and that in that Industry but it’s completely fabricated It’s all yeah Don’t check anything like we were on Some rankings and we had nothing from Them or our clients or nothing from them So it’s just a way to sell lead gen so Like this has sponsored placements as Well and it’s just like if you want to Rank higher you can just pay those three Thousand dollars and we rank you higher So they’re just renting the page Basically like the same way a lot of SEO Is do for local quarries like they build Website then they just charge like a Dentist or a lawyer to put them on a Page and get them some traffic Essentially it has to be small and so so if you’re trying to hire
Your service Don’t don’t believe these I like case Studies like some of them unless you There are like like we had an old one But it’s too old now I would recommend You go check the creditors actually some Competitors have done new attic I think Brandon had has done one recently and Maybe met you world or something what it Tastes like link building services for Example and it’s like I think these are We trust when this like they really want To buy the service and check it out etc As in this is cool but he’s kind of like Ranking sites just no don’t don’t trust Them and talking about in building I Think it’s probably the scariest thing To also although it’s not as scary as it Was once when there was no disabled to And you could get your site hammered by Penguin but you could not disavow it and You just had to wait For Google to let you back in like to Rank again you need to be a little bit Careful because there is a lot of lies And in selling links and it’s One of the things that pisses me off the Most right most people that we’ve Criticized for as being link sellers They’re like oh you don’t like PB ends And you don’t like great house etc I’m Like I don’t care great huh like PB ends Are not illegal you’re not breaking the Law you’re not too hard to own a website
Anything to another website is Completely fine my problem is when Service providers sell you a guest post For like 200 bucks well it’s actually Just a post on their shitty pbn that Actually market value around $40 and They will just change their marketing to Charge you four five times more and we See some of our readers just ending up Giving them way too much money to for Something that’s just not was what they Paid for and also they got like it says Like real guest posts and then you get a Link on the VPN or you get a mention It’s a link on the hacked website and They just bought your own safe you know And that’s my problem and a lot of People will do that and it’s very hard To verify because when you talk to them You will ask for samples of something And they will show you real simple it’s Kind of like designers designers do that A lot they send you great samples and Your hires or designers like that’s a Lot worse than anything else on the Samples and in builders will do the same And and that’s a bit of a problem also a Lot of people would say real outreach Things and then they would just buy the Links which again I don’t mind if you Buy links but tell your clients you’re Buying links for them like for example I Mean a good example is Jason no and we Haven’t podcast right he does pay
Foldings but he tells his clients when He pays for wings and you know I have no Problem with that it’s like it’s a Reality of the market and a lot of People do evolve a tremendous Buy links And and it’s fine but what I don’t like Is when you think that you were Completely clean you’ve paid a service And then you take you’ve taken a risk That you’re not aware of and that annoys Me a lot and as your providers do that a Lot so that they can make more money and They can inflate their prices so they Lie to you so be very careful I think a Lot of the time when people are hiring These kind of sir Services and there’s a oh you know we Don’t we don’t it’s all natural outreach Blah blah blah there’s maybe a bit of Them that kind of doubts it but they’re Just like well you know they’re saying It’s okay so it must be like I was sight Out of mind kind of thing so I think That’s definitely a factor there what I Will also say you know as someone who at One point sold a thousand links in a Month not selling links but like Providing that link building as a Service what would happen is that we Very quickly built up a database of a Few hundred sites who we had you know Core relationships with relationships With core people and we knew that we Could get any like witches sent any
Article of almost any quality as long as It wasn’t too like a porn site or Something and we could we could spend Betweens of like ten and thirty dollars For like the sponsored fee and we could Get a link for any client on that site Now when you have 200 sites so you can Do this from if you if you have one Client who wants you know 50 links a Month then eventually you’re going to Need to like start you know doing actual Average to get links for them but for All these sort of small volume clients That are coming in and buying you know Five links a month for four six months Or something you can just use your Database like why spend the time doing The outreach doing the hard manual work When you just go through this same Database and just you know get easy Quick links from and that’s a reality of The link building outsourcing market and It’s something you have to be very very Careful careful of because you know just Because the numbers the DR or whatever Is is good and the site looks kind of Old or whatever seems to have traffic if They’re selling links for 20 bucks and Everyone is just like everybody is just Like getting links from them then you Know you have to question whether that’s A that’s a valuable link to have and you Know even that debate aside is that what You’re really paying for if they say
They’re manually out reaching for links And they’re not yeah I mean yeah it’s It’s It’s quite tricky and the thing is it The lack of transparency annoys me now The process is like a lot of people do That with their sites but the lack of Transparency is terrible pick the next Point next place are micromanaging so And this this goes more for like the the SEO agency like they’re doing it all for You kind of thing The most common inquiry we got from from Clients over that time was hey I was Checking my Google Analytics today and I Saw traffic was down on this page by 10 Percent or hey I was just checking the Rank tracker and this keyword dropped Three positions today what’s up and you Know it’s kind of born out of ink it’s Born I have ignorant to an extent but It’s also they want to make sure that You’re you’re on it and you’re not Letting anything slip so they kind of Try and micromanage you like that now of Course when you’re looking at one page Or one keyword especially you know they Go up and down all the time it’s a Competitive landscape and you know we Had templated answers to sort of explain Why that why that happens and we do try As much you would try and get ahead of The situation and tell clients not to Worry about that they always did and it
Took up some of our time to kind of have This conversation with them and that was Time that we couldn’t spend doing their Actual SEO and which would you know Ironically help recover whatever Situation had occurred so there is an Argument to say that you know you should Be agreeing check-in time or reporting Time without weekly monthly whatever When you have a call get reported and Get reports you check on their progress But if you’re looking at it every day It’s kind of things go up and down and They change so much especially with with With rankings that you’re just gonna Cause more problems than you solve by by Micromanaging them on this on this in This kind of way and the same can kind Of be said for if you’re outsourcing Content or link building although I Think there’s a big big difference there I think content especially you need to Be like Heavily heavily micromanaging like the First so of like four or five ten Articles that a Content producer or Agency delivers for you because that Will determine your feedback there will Determine the quality of work you’re Getting back from them on the on the Long long run and so if you don’t do if You don’t do that properly there then You end up getting work forever Basically and it’s very hard you know
After they’ve delivered 500 articles so You say oh they’re all terrible so you Have to kind of get ahead of it there But after things get going then Micromanaging can often cause more Problems than then you think it solves Although it’s nice to feel like you’re Keeping on top of someone or an agency You’re often just making the problem Worse so you have to be a little bit Careful that yeah um I actually want to Wrap this up now with one thing which is I think you and we’re gonna go back to Being at these podcasts you should be Building an in-house team eventually so You need a plan I think agencies are great to get Started something you’re not good at That you’ve never done before you get The low hanging fruits for them and you Get a lot of education so I think if you Hire an agency and you don’t just get The value from the work they do but from Understanding how this process works it Brings you an initial experience the Problem is as we mentioned earlier as Well you get kind of like a ceiling of Mediocrities through the portfolio Effect of the managing of the clients And so it’s very hard to get aggressive Groves etc like we have some friends That used to have agencies and couldn’t Get gross and entrench into in-house and Got massive growth many people that we
Know so I think when you have agencies It’s a good idea to make a plan to not Have this going forever but rather have A transition plan so I like the idea of Like having like for example that’s one Thing we talked about photo hack I was Thinking of like doing proper Traditional PR so I think it’s a good Idea to hire an agency for one or two Years and I like the idea of putting Someone in charge for managing them and Kind of like have them learn about the Process ask a lot of questions will you Check the work so you make sure you get Good work but at the same time these Personality case About the process whereas Facebook ads Whether it’s PR is thing like that and What this person does is slowly take More and more of this work in-house and Of the agency and eventually you build An in-house team that can then push Things in a much more tailored way for Your business and with the goal of Growing your business not the entire Portfolio of client and I think that’s How we’ve seen most people use agencies Successfully so they’re great way to get Started with something like if you want To try it Facebook guys if you want to Try PR if you want to like start link Building if you’re not doing that yet if You want to start content all of that It’s a great way to get started but
Eventually I think that’s the best way To to handle this so I would recommend That you make a plan to slowly Transition in-house build a core Competency and grow from there yeah I Mean I I agree I think there’s Definitely a valid place for agencies Especially if you’re just getting Started you don’t know what you need you Need someone to kind of like establish The process get things going but I don’t Think the SEO or any of the the Subtopics around it are a link building Content technical SEO etc are things you Can completely just outsource the mind Share of you you have to take some Ownership you have to have your fingers In all the pies with it at least to to Some extent and yeah just just be very Careful with with who you’re hiring in This industry because it’s not regulated I don’t necessarily think it should be Regulated In the same way that like accountants or Lawyers are but you know there are a lot Of people who are substandard less let’s Put it that way all right Any final walls nope all right well on These remember if you are watching this On youtube click on the like button Below as I said there’s a coalition Study that says that you rank higher if You click on that if you subscribe that Helps us a lot as well and if you want
To listen to this podcast on the audio Platform is on any podcast platform just To photo Jakob podcast and you will find Us there we release a new podcast every Monday so you have another podcast in a Week if you listen on Monday and if you Come on Monday on our YouTube channel Around 5:00 p.m. UK time you will have us live actually Answer your questions during the Premiere of the that zip so so if You want to hang out you can do that Thank you for listening we will see you Next week have a great right [Music] Oh [Music]