Ah link building the part of seo we all Love to hate But why is it that so many seos feel That way Well with link building you need to Constantly stay one step ahead of the Curve And that means not sending the same Templated outreach message that everyone Else is using Okay so be unique but how the hell do You do that Well glad you asked because today my Guest is going to show that to you Her name is bb the link builder and she Builds hundreds of guest posts Every single month she has an agency With over 20 people working for her And what makes her so special is she’s Really really good At cold outreach emails her approach is Funny entertaining and really makes her Stand out But it’s also systematizable and Scalable And be sure to tune in for the full Episode because i’ve prepared a surprise Test for her i’m going to be giving her A random selection of niches which i’ve Prepared in advance And i’m going to ask her to create Outreach messages Specifically for sites in that niche now She doesn’t know this is happening so
We’re going to put her on the spot a Little bit and see if she really knows What she’s doing Let’s get started [Music] Welcome to the podcast bibi how’s it Going it’s good Uh i’m a little bit tired but it’s Friday so i’m probably not gonna do Anything on saturday except Read tons of zombie books that’s my Thing right now Zombie books uh that sounds interesting I think it’s I think it’s my twisted way to deal with The With the corona virus ever since uh Lockdown habit happened i’ve been just Binging Uh a lot of zombie books and they all Suck Horribly but the the one i’m reading Right now is amazing it’s called The rising and it’s non-stop gory Action-packed awfulness Yeah it’s really great is this your is This your secret is this where you get All your creativity when it comes to Link building outreach then from from Zombie horror books No but you’ve just gave me an idea I’m good Endless endless source of inspiration Thank you okay well welcome to the show
Anyway And for the the few people watching who Haven’t heard of you or Don’t know you so far you’re obviously A link builder and you run a link Building company Uh can you tell us what are Some of the best links you’ve you’ve Managed to build give us a flavor of the Kind of stuff Um okay one of the best links Was like i can’t actually say the domain But it was a link on The number one psychology site And it was about it was actually linking Out to clients For burial insurance uh Okay and the article was a difficult Difficult niche to do link building and I imagine Yeah yeah and the article was about how To prepare your parents for a bright Future So it wasn’t just a really hard thing to Get But it was the irony around the whole Thing was just so hilarious you know so That i’m really proud of that link and In terms of Quantity how many links does your Company build Per month so on average yeah so Um i think we’re supposed to build 300 Links a month
But we’re a little bit below that you Know you aim for something And then it never happens that you reach That target well i don’t Uh also because my link building process Depends a lot on The goodwill of editors uh But you could say that yeah between 200 and 300 links a month okay so you Got some Pretty serious scale uh but behind this And these are These are good links as well what what’s Your average dr Of of a link that you you get for your Clients uh Well i don’t really focus on dr that Much I um oh what metric do you use Well none or do you use any metrics Okay well we’ll get into that later in The in the show yeah Well i i do follow uh metrics minimums If the client wants it so then i follow It uh but if it were up to me I just kind of use my eyeballs to see if The site’s good Um okay so the dr can range between 20 and 90 something like that Okay yeah and when did you build your First link Oh um Jesus i think that was maybe like Three years ago or a little bit longer
No it was i think new to four years ago Yeah so In three or four years you’ve gone from Not knowing how to do link building to Running a company building hundreds of High quality Uh links per month that’s pretty Impressive yeah how did that Happen i don’t know so The one of the reasons i wanted to have You on today is because you have this Kind of like secret sauce aura about you About the way you Communicate with people when you’re Doing outreach Um can you tell us a little bit about About that and like what What is it that makes you so effective At this where Many seos have you know terrible open Rates And are just getting nowhere with it What are you doing I think well first of all it’s not such A secret sauce because if you guys Follow me Uh the articles that are right or the Talks that i do I always share the stuff mostly exactly How i do it But that said um i think that Other link builders or anybody getting Into link building is so obsessed with Scaling and systemizing everything that
They lose the human aspect And for me i’m very Personable i’m very human oriented and i Always try to See things from the perspective of the Prospect that i reach out to for Instance when i Just started i posted in i was in a Blogger group With all these mommy bloggers you know And those are the scariest Species on the planet and for link Builders And i asked them so why do you guys hate Link builders and i thought that they Would say You know they they’re trying to take Advantage of Us or they’re spamming us or whatever But the number one reason was that People didn’t look at their Site so they didn’t pay any attention to Them And so i guess my my secret sauce is That i’m more personable but i also Paid just this little bit more attention To who i’m talking to and that makes all The difference so it’s not even that i’m Genius or whatever It’s just a little bit extra okay well We’ll get into a few examples of Of how you you approach different types Of sites later on but Can you tell me a bit about your
Prospecting strategies like how do you Identify Sites you you potentially want to link From uh yeah there are a couple of ways But so i look for sites based on Specific keywords that you want to rank For But i also look at sites that are Businesses themselves So they don’t monetize through their Content but they’re monetized to their Products and services And sites that and those businesses Should share a part of your audience Or a part of your niche And how i look for them is that i use Keywords that only those sites would Rank for i call them expert keywords Or keywords that for instance a local Business Would rank for if you say dentist you Could say Dentist book appointments because then You know that you’re actually getting Real dentists Plus informational keywords like tips And tricks and how to because then you Get the dentists that are real dentists So they don’t make money with their Sites Uh well not with the informational part Of it and They have a blog so that’s how i find Prospects so you’re specifically looking
For sites that don’t monetize Their their information have a real Product or service Behind that is that because it’s easier To get a link or cheaper to get a link Or what’s the thinking there All those things it’s easier to get a Link because you can imagine that A real company you know their content Marketing is something they need to do But they might not have All the time for it so if you can give Them anything For instance guest post or a linkable Asset that they can base some content on That can help them you know they can Help sell to their audience Um so it’s it’s much easier to sell to Pitch to them As a writer for a for guest post or for A linkable asset And it’s also cheaper because they’re Not that interested in making money with Their content they’re More interested in selling to their Audience and branding themselves And do you have any tips on on how to Actually do this i mean are you are you Just going to google and kind of looking Around Use ahrefs use any other tools to to Identify these Um yeah so i use bitchbox um that Kind of like a scrapey thingy in it uh
And you have so for for people i know Pitchbox is quite high-end tool i think It starts at like 500 bucks a month or Something for for people who Listen and haven’t used it before can You just sort of explain In a nutshell what it does and why you Use it yeah Um bitchbox is an outreach tool But more importantly it takes over a lot Of the project management side of link Building And you use it to build campaigns and Then you Email people from pitchbox and you Receive replies back in your inbox And that’s how you uh yeah manage your Your link outreach And how how do you use it specifically For the the tactic you you mentioned Before Yeah so you have all these different Sets of Campaign types that you can use you can Decide that you want to do a resource Link campaign or a roundup campaign and Then there are Presets features that you can run With specific keywords and then you can Find then you get a prospect list that You have to you know Clean up a little bit and then you can Do your outreach but what i like to do Is the google search operator campaigns
They’re also In pitchbox and there i just Put in yeah about 15 keywords and then They start Finding a site in a list and then have My guys Inspect and personalize so they check Each site if it’s a good site and they Personalize it They check the data you know the Contacts information Then someone creates a template and the Outreach starts So that’s how we do it so can you tell Me about the quality factors you look at I mean you mentioned you don’t Actually pay attention to dr or any of These kind of seo Metrics what what are you looking at in That Yeah um there are a couple of things so We use our eyes to look at the site and Um So first off you know if you see a Thousand Uh if you see a lot of sites you start To recognize that it’s a It’s a content only site yeah and You can have really big sites that just Have content and don’t offer any Products and services And those would be good sites as well But you’ll you’ll recognize the seo Sites or the the the uh
How do the sites are clearly made to Attract people For selling links uh so that their their Design is crap you know or old They don’t keep up with their content i Always say um It’s kind of like a garden you know when You go into a garden when you look Around you and you Does it feel like a garden that somebody Took care of you know if it looks Neglected Or there’s all this this plastic crap in It Um you know it’s not the garden for you The other thing that we look for is if They have a right for us Page very blatantly visible so Sometimes sites do have it but they Don’t really advertise it or anything But other sites they have it you know Really big in their in the navigation And then Then you know that they get outreached By thousands of link builders and They’re so used to You know getting paid for links or Having anybody post on their site that’s That’s not a good thing um And i also check if there are real People behind it but That’s that’s not always a rule But if there’s a page that has a team You know and there
Are people working in a company there’s A marketing manager an editor and There’s a ceo and all that stuff then It’s usually a good site for me so Basically you’re looking for A real site it’s a real business and not Just a content Content farm or a guest post farm yeah Basically yeah and And i always i think um it doesn’t mean That All does it that’s a content only size Can’t be good you know They can be great i mean look at Livestrong or something like that Although they have to have some products As well But i just tell people if if you doubt Longer Than five minutes or three minutes about A site and just delete it Because if the site makes you doubt it Makes you Start looking into all these metrics and Then you do see some Weird dips in the traffic or whatever It’s just total waste of your time Because In that same time you can find five Sites where you don’t have to Dial for a second so do you look at how Much traffic the site gets according to You know ahrefs or any of these these Things as
A as a factor in your decision a little Bit you know because sometimes clients Do want a minimum of traffic The problem with hvac traffic is that It’s highly unreliable Um so it’s more it’s more like a Accumulation of red flags you know If a site is great but there’s a dip in Traffic or something It’s not a big deal but if a site looks Sucky And there’s weird traffic stuff going on And they have some spammy backlinks and And they reply with a um They reply with an answer that says oh i Have 20 other sites and i’m like out the Door But i tell people if a site really feels Good and there’s one little Bad thing about it that’s totally fine Do you look at the other sites they link Out to as well like if they have a lot Of casino or Cbd links yeah is that a red flag for You Yeah so i don’t check its standards But if if a site gives me some doubt or If i have a suspicion i I start checking the outgoing links okay And How do you go about finding the contact Info i i know Pitchbox has some technology built in do You use that do you use
Hunter do you have any manual processes No i use bitchbox And it usually comes up with like 20 Emails But i have everyone check at each Um each site manually so they have to They have to use they have to kind of Guess what the right emails are But they always have to look at the Context and about page Because there might be a really good Contact email address on there or people Might say we don’t want you to reach out For us To ask for guest spells or links that i Respect that i don’t want to reach out To those Sites and do you pay attention to Whether they’ve done Guest posts in the past or they’ve any Other people have guest posted on On the site rather uh no maybe i should But we don’t what i what we do do is That when you look at the blog Post and it looks like every other post Is a guest post linking out to a company Then that’s a little bit of a red flag Of a link seller Um if it’s a really good site we do Reach out anyway but It won’t it’s one of those things that Could indicate um It’s just a link farm the other thing That you know you can you can always
Think of the site it’s really great and Then When you reach out to them and they Reply in your inbox Um the tone by which they reply and the Way they reply can Uh uh can make you disqualify inside So what would be a case where you Disqualify someone um based on the reply What kind of things would they say Yeah if they if they say stuff like uh Oh it’s immediately like oh it’s twenty Dollars and we have twenty other sites And Uh links to gambling is hundred dollars And i’m like Bye felicia and i blacklist them right Away So there would be a reply that i Wouldn’t like why specifically is that So i mean obviously if they have a Network of sites that indicates they’re Maybe a Guest post farm if they have different Pricing for Casino or cbd than than the rest what’s That telling you about them And why is that a factor for your Decision it shows that anybody can Can place a link on our site if they Have the money And that’s i don’t know if what other Link builders are gonna do with that Site maybe they’re gonna blast it with
Some spam tier two or three or whatever What do you wanna call it links and also The other thing is that the person that Runs the site they might have some Criteria for posting on the site now but Uh in the end they get broke or Something or they want fast money and They drop their criteria more and more It just becomes a really crappy site So i don’t want to take that risk i Rather want somebody Um that cares about their side and cares About who they live in I like it when somebody replies not so Enthusiastic and they really want to Have they have some more questions about It or they have a Long list of criteria and you have to go Through this whole editorial process Because those people really care about Their sites And they won’t let anybody on there that Easily So you’re looking for you’re looking for People who care about their their sites Because they’re Real businesses and who have high high Standards Uh you basically want everyone else Who’s doing kind of spammy link building Not to want to bother to to to jump over Those hurdles Exactly yeah i don’t want to make the Analogy with dating but
I’m going for the hard to get months for Sure Okay and do your criteria do the way you Look at sites differ From niche to niche i mean if you’re in I don’t know if you take uh sites in Like casino or cbd or Even that credit card stuff is is it not Like All of the links you’re getting they’re A little bit more spammy than if you’re Doing Uh i don’t know pets or something yeah It’s funny Um so i’m actually starting For the first time in gambling link Building And it’s four clients that really wants My style of Of uh link building so more like organic And And all that stuff so i have to see how That’s gonna turn out because i don’t Know I have done some credit card stuff and Even then I think the um because they They were okay with paying for links i Think in that regards I would drop my criteria a little bit Because if if a site Is used to dealing with paid links then It’s okay Um but they still have they have to have
Their own criteria i want them to be the Gatekeeper Uh against other spammy link builders But it’s more like a thing yeah okay um When it comes to what you actually say In your outreach message like this is This is what you’re kind of known for Yeah how do you where do you start right You i take it you don’t have a Template that you you go off of and you You customize a few things you’re doing Something Pretty special here what is it um thank You Well it is funny though because i used To do bespoke outreach Like for every side it would be Completely unique for that site i would Look at their site and see something That jumped out to me and then Create an angle for that in the email For instance There was a site a pretty big site and But i found out that they were hungarian People so I made my email a little bit hungarian And i looked into their about page and i Take took things Off the about page and incorporated Those In my email um that was bespoke outreach So that worked really really well But because i got more customers and A bigger team so now i have like 23
People That’s hard you know you don’t have the The time Or brain power to do these bespoke Emails so now we actually do work from Templates But we uh customize them for each niche So well for each client basically So what we do is that you look at the Prospect list And you look at what kind of Similarities they have in our content And how they talk And what their interests are and then You Theme your template that way so for Instance Um for cyber security We did star wars themed templates With a lot of jokes and baby yoda memes And That kind of stuff so yeah that’s that’s What we do and we use a lot of Humor and funds in the emails Okay so i’m i’m glad you said that Because Um i’ve prepared a little game for you Um and i’m sorry to kind of put you on The spot A little bit here but um i’ve put some Serious production work into this it’s It’s called the game of niches So we have but Behind this uh behind this game board we
Have Eight mystery niches so i’m gonna ask You to pick Three numbers from here uh each one Contains a nice some more difficult than Others And then i’m gonna ask you to on the Spot Live come up with a uh An outreach approach or something which You would say When crafting a template okay cool can i Have your Can i have your first number please okay Can i can i give one disclaimer though Because You know my sure my team now makes a Template so i i might be a little bit Wrong No no excuses baby come on you can do This okay cool Uh seven seven okay What do we have here So we’ve got wedding speeches oh i did It I didn’t campaign for that uh Okay okay what what did we do So what i normally would do is that i Will go to A pond site and i see Some sides here i see a led elite daily Has 39 wedding puns then there’s pinterest But i want to skip that up so it has to
Be kind of wedding related Panpedia um Carriage marriage okay so here it says Your marriage awaits I might use that as a subject line right So you’re married to wait And then a proposal for and then i would Do the site name or the person’s name so In your case it would be Your marriage await a proposal for mark Yeah and um [Music] Then i would have this is a guest post Bit so i would have to go Into wedding speech sites So then i’m gonna google something that The wedding speech site Might rank for so best wedding Speech ideas For best friend or best man let’s do Best man And that what i’m doing now is that i’m Looking at potential prospects because They’re probably be Uh wedding sites so hitch.cod.uk And the knots and all speeches great and Small They could be a good one then i look Through the contents Of a wedding site Because i want to see what kind of stuff They’re talking about Because that’s going gonna give me ideas For content you can also use actually
Semrush for this Um i have it open here it’s called topic Research And let’s do wedding speech let’s see What comes up So you put in keywords in topic research And then it’s gonna analyze Content or something i’m not entirely Sure how it works This is exactly how i would do it i Would just jump back and forth between Different tools and things Um so i’m looking at hit stop kodak uk Okay so here’s a i see some things about Guest list wedding suppliers checklist Now i would probably Do pitch an article about managing your Wedding suppliers So avoid my avoid marriage Avoid wetting migraines how to manage Your wedding suppliers that would be one Pitch The other one would be seven tips to Stay on track with your wedding Checklist And then i would do another one maybe About wedding speech Um how to not fumble through your Wedding speech or Uh 10 creative angles to Your wedding speech so that could be so You’re you’re pitching these These uh guest post ideas in in the First email like uh
When you send it yeah okay so and yeah Do do you just go straight in with the Pitch for that or do you Sort of like say something to get their Attention first Well in a subject line i do use uh often Use a pun So in this case it would be your Marriage awaits it’s not actually not That great but it does Stand out sometimes in an inbox and But i combined it with your marriage Awaits A pitch for mark because i want to Qualify people with my subject line if Somebody is not interested in pitch they Don’t open the email Right and it’s that’s totally fine But they see immediately from the Subject line what i want so then they Open the email And then i could incorporate another Joke that would be like i would look for Um I’m not going to do that right now but If you look for 10 best Jokes about marriage or about Relationships i would use that In the first paragraph of the email And um then i would and these are like Really Cheesy like dad joke level jokes or what Kind of jokes Yes they’re very very dad jokes
That jokes are are the meat of my Business i would say and cat Memes as well um So do you send images sometimes in your Outreach In my follow-ups yeah i don’t do it in The first one because i’m a little bit Paranoid about it Some people have said that it could Cause problems Um but i’ve never tested it out but i do In follow-ups i use a lot of cats And baby yoda stuff and everything That’s cute So the subject line uh needs to draw Their attention it shouldn’t sound Like a link builder or a sales letter But it also qualifies the prospect yeah So when they open they know they kind of Know it’s going to be a pitch So then they open i do another little Joke or Or sometimes i also did you know during A lockdown i did a heartfelt thing about The lockdown but in a Not in a fake way it was just like you Know life sucks Something like that and then i say hey You know to help couples get through Marriage season while being stuck at Home I thought of the following topics for Your site and then i just pitched The three headlines and then i say
Something like i’m happy to Tweak or edit or rephrase this for you If you think it’s a It’s a better it’s more suitable um And then i can and do you go in saying You know hey i’m a writer i want to get My work out there or are you saying hey I’m I want to do a guest post to get a do Follow back link from you or what kind Of language are you using around that Stuff yeah so i’m pitching like a writer But i don’t say that i’m a writer Often i actually speak on behalf of the Client so the signature Has the client in it um Yeah i’m not really specific about it so That The email looks like a writer that’s Pitching some stuff but i do sometimes Mention the word guest in it I would love to write a guest feature or If you’re open to guest writers or If there’s an open spot in your Editorial calendar for guest writers You know that they do see the word guest So it’s because sometimes people get to Get Confused and they try to hire the me Right and like no no no And then i say no you know i just i’m Just trying to increase our visibility And Uh that’s why i i love writing for other
Sites Yeah um all right shall we uh should we Pick another one from the uh The game of niches board okay uh what Number do you want next Basically the same process um Let’s do number one Number one ah we got my favorite It’s the paintball niche wow you already Did you already did something in your Podcast about that You did it we talked we when we whatever We can’t think of an example of a niche We just default to paintball and it’s Kind of become a thing on the podcast So it makes sense that was included here Um [Music] People i would again look into Paintball sites so you’re googling Paintball puns to begin with Paintball puns but you know i’ve skipped Some to say something really important About this stuff and that’s to determine Your prospect list first Um so basically what i do is segmenting And theming So theming is a part i showed you you Like with the wedding puns and all that Stuff But but you have to know who you’re Writing to otherwise you don’t know what They’re interesting So for the paintball side um it would be
It would Be most obvious to reach out to other Paintball sites For instance but i could also think About Other types of prospects so then it Would maybe be parents Parenting blogs and in that case i Wouldn’t do paintball puns i would do Parenting Puns um wow okay yeah Because it has to be themed to the Prospect not necessarily to me So for instance for let’s say parents And i would do i would look for Parenting funds But maybe especially with the lockdown And because i’m a parent myself i can Also Think about it but i’m just gonna i’m Just gonna try to do this as if i was a New link builder and i didn’t know Anything right so i’m looking at an Article At today.com and it’s about the funniest Post about homeschooling and it’s Stuff on twitter um Let me see okay So here i see a i see a tweet from from A mom And she says boss on phone how are Things going Me gazing out the window at my kids Strangling each other
Whilst jumping barefoot in a trampoline Great So what this says to me is that kids are Fighting at home of course you know Because parents are getting super Stressed out so why don’t i write in the Subject line How to make the most of your kids Fighting you know Because parents will be like what what Are you talking about why would i You know make the most of it and then i Would of course I would qualify it with a pitch for or Contributing to And then a side name or a person and Then going in the email I would probably make another joke about Fighting kids or i would say Just give him a gun or no no no that Would be too far He wouldn’t be doing it just gave him a Paintball gun or i don’t know Something you know that would relate it To paintball Because when your kids fight why not Take all this aggression Out with a paintball gun that that’s Really good actually i think that would Work Work very well something i noticed that That all these Approaches seem to do is it’s very much Like triggering
Emotions of people um like when you Mentioned the lockdown thing It’s kind of like negative or sad Emotion but The humor is obviously the the funny Emotion uh but That seems to be what what evokes a Response the most would you say Yeah that’s so well observed i’ve never Thought about that but that’s I think that’s all i do i just poke at People a little bit I even do it in a negative way sometimes Like for instance i was Reaching out to uh health health food Bloggers Right i think i told this before some Somewhere else And instead of doing something positive I said In the i think i said it in a subject Line like your smoothie sucks Because they all have smoothie recipes Right and then i talked about How i tried out their smoothie recipe But it’s just extremely disgusting And it actually must be doing something Wrong you know and then Again you have you have to find the Right tone it can be kind of tricky Um but it’s sort of a compliment but It’s also A trigger in a negative way And yeah have you ever have you ever
Kind of Gotten the wrong response when when Trying something like that Yes i just did a Uh thing to it professionals and it was Completely harry potter themed And we got a lot of good responses back And won a lot of links but one guy was Like This is the worst unprofessional email I’ve ever gotten in my life He didn’t spend like a thousand words on How horrible i was There but sometimes it can also surprise You because we also did a campaign And um i can’t really go into the Details but The subject line was a little bit flirty And It was it was funny it was a little bit Flirty but it had to do with Font you know letter fonts types of Letters And i thought it was risky but then it Worked So well it was just the conversion rate Was so high on that So you have to just try stuff out but i Do tell people Um you know no sexist stuff No racist stuff try No no controversial stuff don’t be Yeah politics and religion can Maybe uh sidestep that one as well yeah
But getting negative responses um It’s okay it’s just part of the thing I think people i think yeah i don’t know I think you bother people more with a Very generic Um fake flattery email Than with something that makes them go Like huh what the you know what is this Now Have you ever turned a negative response Into A link i don’t think so actually I’ve had i’ve had some keyboard warriors That were just like Getting into it and then i would talk Back to them but we would only egg them On You know would only get worse yeah i was Nice to them but they were just in this Little tunnel thing So really negative responses no i do Have people that Can sometimes be critical and stuff and I think it’s important that you always Have to leave your ego at the door You know you don’t need to be doormat But don’t get caught up in the emotion Because it’s not a rejection of you You know it’s just it’s just sort of you Know Sometimes you just catch people and They’re having a bad day something else Affect them they wouldn’t normally react Like that and
You’re just happened to be there to bear The brunt of Whatever chips on their on their Shoulder at that point in time And yeah you you outreach to enough People you talk to enough people and This is gonna happen to you so you just Have to You know leave your ego at the door as You said and kind of Move on yeah and that’s that’s what i Noticed because i you you know By now i’ve trained a lot of people and They all have to go over that hurdle of Rejection And i i tell them it’s not a life or Death situation if somebody’s being a Dick or whatever You’re not gonna die it’s just an email That you delete You know you’re done but you get so much The way we do outreach you get so many Positive replies back All day long so that really makes it Worth Do you get a lot of people saying uh a Lot of people Outreach to me but this is the first one I’ve answered i don’t normally respond To To this thing yeah yeah non-stop and and People Thanking you for emailing them i mean How you know
You’re cold emailing people had never Heard of you and they actually thank you You made my day you know you made me Smile or whatever So yeah that’s really nice Do you often have to like negotiate with People or like Explain i’m not necessarily just talking About like paying them or Price although we can get into that but Um Do you often have to like explain Further what you want and like convince Them why it’s a good idea for you to do It Do you end up getting into some of those Discussions yeah so That’s another thing that i always tell To to my guys And i have to remind myself as well just Be laid back don’t Push don’t bag don’t demand anything Because this is called outreach You initiated this you know you’re not They’re not They’re not obliged to anything to you So if somebody says you know i’m not Interested or whatever Then you then i always tell people you Have to reply because it’s It’s polite just say you know that’s all Good Um have a great day you know and Sometimes a month later
They come back to you but that shouldn’t Even be in your brain so It also takes the stress out of it Because i always tell them Don’t don’t try to get the link you know Just have a Nice conversation explain what you’re Doing if they want it Good if they don’t want it then it’s Fine because i don’t want people to feel Like they have to win the The link it’s really it’s a bit Counterintuitive But i think somebody at the other end of The email They can sense when you’re desperate And that doesn’t work not for us I think i think if you be too pushy as Well especially over Over email if you try and do kind of Like Salesman techniques that may work you Know in a High pressure in-person sales tech uh Situation The uh because people just have time to Think about it and stop and Reflect it it can really like turn People off quite quite quickly as well Yeah i think i think so and and the risk Of it as well is that they can flag you As spam And once your email is flagged as spam Your whole campaign is
You know you have to repair all that Stuff so i rather just lose the Opportunity They’re pushing people to flag me How do you sort of protect your Deliverability uh and what do you do When you Encounter issues with that like that Yeah so i’m not i’m not a deliverability Expert but we do the The whole dmarc dkim spf thing And we warm them up ourselves manually i Know there are tools out there as well We’re not using them at the moment with Newsletters with Emails going back and forth um And we kind of throttle the how much Email we sent out a day so it’s between For for each client it’s it’s between 20 And 40. um and i think bitchbox Also has a whole system behind their Their outreach tool that Uh uses mail servers that protects the Email deliverability but I’m not so technical of that stuff so i Don’t know Okay and when it comes to actually Writing the guest post Content uh do you have any kind of Processes do you have In-house team that does that do you Outsource it how do you handle it Yeah i have a so a really good friend
Recommended this South african service to me and we’ve Been working with them now For over a year or something um And they just keep hiring more writers Um yeah we just order through them we Have a We just switched to click up it’s a Project management tool And in the click up tool we have a space A content tracker And we ordered articles through that we Just and then the The the woman who manages the service She’s in our click as well and in our Slack And that’s how we order things and how Much direction do you give to them Do you just sort of give them the title And ask them to to write it or Are you getting kind of more into it Than that uh no it’s basically the Headline And then um there are some things that Are always standard So it’s like thousand words or whatever But for some prospects They want more words or less words so we We put it in but otherwise than that It’s It’s all up to them how they do it okay Uh and how many people do you have Working for you now i think 23 or 25 uh it’s oh no
That’s a it’s a pretty big size for a Link building team How do you split up the work do you have Different people doing prospecting and Outreach or how do you divide the roles Yeah that’s so interesting because I started i partnered up with a business Partner And this was when i couldn’t um Take on more clients i was a client Capacity and i’ve been working with this Business partner before But then we um we decided to partner up And we had two teams so he would run his Team out on my team and we would would Often call work on the same project Um but his approach uh was very Different than mine he had very Like a fordism kind of module so Everybody had one role and that’s all They did Which worked really well in terms of Productivity But i think the the downside of it was That there Was a lot of dependency on specific People so it was a lot of pressure for One person you know to handle all the Inboxes or stuff like that In my team i hired more creative people And i trained them through the whole Process And which made the productivity a little Bit lower because they had to switch a
Lot between things and they had to learn A lot But now we’re kind of seeing the Benefits of it because They have grown into more Project management role so now we have Team leads That can just run on run their own four Or five projects at the same time Uh with other team members and that’s What we’re So we’re kind of merging the teams now And we’re gonna do more of those sub Team division style thingy I like to see people grow and be in a Role and do the tasks that they Feel most comfortable with and it makes Them happy so if somebody comes in And they’re really good at inspecting And personalizing and they don’t want to Do anything else and it’s fine you know Then just do that If i change their mind later on it’s Fine too i also have people that Are extremely good with templates and Dealing with prospects And they started doing inspective Personalized and they’re just Completely miserable because it’s such a boring thing to do Uh and i tell them okay that’s fine you Just do that you know So it’s a it’s not it’s i’ve seen both Worlds now i think it’s both okay
But um what what type of people are you Hiring for To to do link building i know a lot of People struggle to To find good people to to fill that role I think One of the problems is you often you go On somewhere like upwork you say i’m Hiring a link builder No the type of people who apply yeah They come with certain Um pre-existing knowledge and that can Often be a bad thing so Yeah how do you do it i hire people Green I mean i have a lot of people that that Message me on linkedin or facebook or Whatever and they Want me to hire them but i always say no Because i don’t want to hire Seos and i don’t want to hire link Builders because they have their own Methods you know and it’s really Hard to to break them out of that Um but i hire most people on online jobs So and then i post an ad for that’s Onlinejobs.ph i post a job For to for a copywriter basically But then i do explain in the ads what Kind of work they will be doing that i Will train them Um i have a video in the Job posting and that job posting is Quite long so there’s long list of
Requirements blah blah But in the video i actually tell them How to apply so if they don’t watch the Video they start applying through Online jobs and i don’t hire them they Don’t even show up On my radar so when they apply Through the process of the video they go Through some automatic Tests automatic automatic yeah automatic Tests And um they have to do a lot of work Before they even get to talk to me So the people that do apply first off Are detail-oriented You know they watch the video they get How they actually should do it And then i do a lot of tests which is a Lot of work you know before you get Hired Um and one of those tests has to do with Creative writing And with the work that they’re going to Do So i look for potential if if they don’t Get it get the guest post stuff or the Other stuff It’s totally fine uh but they have to be Creative and their english has to be Really really good Not formal but casual and Once they’re done if if they go through All those tests and i usually end up With about
Six people uh you know On on online jobs i think 900 people see The ads Then 100 people apply and then 30 people Apply Through the way they should be uh Applying And then all of those people are six or Five left then i have a last skype Chat with them and in a skype chat um We just start talking and i ask them Stuff about their work set up their Expectations and all those things But i’m actually testing the way they’re Communicating with me Um because often people at the last I mean you can you can spend 10 hours And really ace a test right But i need to be able to see how you Talk live How you how you improvise and all that Stuff Um and then when i have a good feeling About them i hire them on the spot Because i don’t I mean by that time they’ve gone through So many hoops You know i kind of reward them with not Getting having them in anguish anymore Um yeah so i’m not looking for link Builders i’m not looking for Data entry people or i’m looking for Creative people And once they come on to your team how
Do you then train them in the The link building do you have them Shadow other people or do you personally Train them do you have um i have a So there’s like like a training So it’s a series of videos and tasks And i used to have trello but now i have Click up So i have a it’s like a template Of tasks they just go through every task And uh then they they do well they watch The video they do the task and then i Give him feedback but i don’t give him Feedback directly i record the feedback Because i’ve noticed that People when you give him direct feedback For some people it’s kind of Confrontational so they start Apologizing for stuff which is not Necessary Because it’s normal to up um and Also they absorb What you say better i mean my team Members have told me that sometimes they Watched a video ten times you know Just to understand what i was saying um But now because we have those team leads They actually Uh train people but we’re still using The same videos and stuff Have you noticed any drop off in um Like quality since you’ve started having Other people who work for you Train the the new people are or has it
Not been an issue That’s a really good question you know Why because I’m so anal I really find it hard to let go so But there was a really good lesson in it Because people show me their templates Right They show me what they write or they Show me how they reply And then i record a video with what i Think about it and i’m always like This sucks and this is stupid and you Can’t say it that way and this is Horrible and you forgot a punctuation Mark there la la But the funny thing is is that when i Don’t do that um okay so sometimes Stuff just really sucks you have to you Have to correct it but a lot of times They send Stuff out and they got great links you Know So i’m no longer the expert on this this Is just my way i do things and now i’m Starting To notice that the the the thought Behind it is the same So you think about the prospect you Think about what would interest and Trigger them But it doesn’t necessarily have to be The way i do it No so it’s kind of bringing in
New ideas and people who think a little Bit differently from from you Yes so the i think what some of the best Templates Are definitely not mine are there from Other people I mean i had this one guy there was Actually a mistake because I should have checked the templates and I didn’t and they went out anyway And it was about also about cyber Security for For some reason and he wrote in his Email these freaking Hackers they’re attacking your side and You need to defend like really Going very intense and then i saw it After and i was like oh my god it’s Horrible And then this editor from one of the Biggest it sites came back and said Okay you got me let’s do this you know And i thought so the takeaway of this Is for for people start link building if You hire creatives you have to let them Go a little bit you know and just see What comes up So that’s really important don’t don’t Not be too controller yeah And don’t don’t do your own idea of link Building don’t put it on them a little Bit they have to Understand the idea but you have to get That to find your own way
Awesome so is there anything which i Haven’t asked you Today which i should have asked you um Uh i don’t know oh oh yes uh who would You like me What wait who should be your next guest On the podcast My on my part on our podcast yeah i Think that’s a cool question though So i i should i i should ask you who Are who the next guest on our podcast Should be yeah but i haven’t thought About it myself i I realized that no no i don’t know All right who bibi who should the next Guest on our podcast be Um i really okay so there’s i’m Fangirling over this woman Uh carrie rose do you know her Okay i don’t know okay she does Pr link building um Not sure if that’s something your Audience is interested in but i really i Really like Definitely yeah oh cool you should Invite her Um yeah all right i’ll reach out to her And see if she wants to come on yes That would be cool awesome okay so where Can people go to Find you what’s your website uh what’s Your socials all that good stuff Um i’m bb buzz.com that’s my website Bb buzz oh twosies and
On twitter i’m also bb bosscom and On facebook i’m just me bb raven all Right well we will put those links Uh below and you do client work for what Type of companies you typically work for Um all niches basically And it’s usually mid-sized enterprise That’s okay yeah but it’s it’s anything I’ve done So many different issues now from Lawyers to Chickens all right well if there are any Chicken owners in the audience listening You know where to go for for link Building now bbbuzz.com Okay cool bb thanks for uh thanks for Coming on today uh Really appreciate it uh thanks for your Time and thanks for Playing the uh the game of niches as Well yeah you have me sweating [Laughter] Sorry the uh the production value of our Our podcasters Has definitely gone up since we’ve we’ve Gone into video i i had to go out and Find different colored post-it notes for For this one so Yeah it’s been a busy day Are you gonna uh you should get those Buzzers that would be cool like sorry That is a fantastic idea all right now i Know what i’m doing tonight Very cool thank you so much this is
Awesome i hope it helps people I’m sure it will i’m sure it will um Thanks for your insights and uh thank You for Watching or listening wherever you’re Sort of tuning in from Uh if you like this show if you like This episode uh Leave us a comment a rating a like a Thumbs up whatever You do on your social media or your Podcast player or your youtube player to Let us know let the world know let the Algorithms know that you enjoyed this Episode so get on do that stuff and We’ll see you next monday for another Episode bye thank you [Music] Bye [Music] You