[Music] Hey everyone welcome to the authority Hacker podcast today Mark is not here he’s snorkeling in Malta so if you’re here for the how is It going mark section You’re going to be a bit disappointed But if you like good stories you are not Going to be disappointed because today i Am with john dixtra From fast tax blog and john makes over 70 000 Per month from his portfolio of websites Mostly from these players which is quite Interesting and without any kind of link Building so i wanted to Dig a little bit deeper and understand His model and how he does things We talk a lot about the tools he uses The services he uses His approach to keyword research and a Bunch of other things so it’s going to Be a really good one i think you’ll Really enjoy it Let’s get started All right so as i told you guys in the Interview we are today with john Dickstrap because marquis Are snorkeling uh in malta right now and I wanted someone that actually does Proper online marketing to come on the Podcast So i got john dixon he’s one of the few Online marketing blogs that i’ve been
Reading for a long time that because he Has Uh original data which is unlike most of The stuff that you read online so john Welcome to the Podcast and thank you for that thanks For having me gail Lucky mark eh i’m snorkeling yeah So i was like he was like yeah i’m going On holiday i’m like really and he’s like Yeah It’s like well apparently you can still Take holidays these days Um but uh yeah and i wanted to have you On the podcast anyway we did a we did a Guest post You did a guest post on our site like a Really long time ago i think it was like Three years ago or something like that Or you took yeah uh ad arbitrage and uh I think you’ve switched to seo since Then right oh pretty much yeah like 99 I still buy a little traffic here and There but i mean it’s not the main main Traffic driver For any of my niche sites yeah actually That’s my first question like can you Explain your model because i think like Like like we’re more focused on Affiliate marketing you seem to be a lot More focused on advertising Um using strive which is also my Favorite uh ad network so it’s gonna be We’re gonna agree on that but can you
Just spend like two minutes to explain Your model to people that are listening And how it might be different from the Stuff that you might have seen from us Etc maybe Yeah yeah yeah i know i’m i’m familiar With what you guys do the affiliate Thing it’s great i that’s how i got Started but I launched any site that grew really Quickly and it just wasn’t I thought it’d be a big affiliate hit And it wasn’t and so i had an adsense Account i just slapped up some ads and They actually earned really well i’m Surprised so I kind of moved the whole direction in Terms of monetization over to display Ads and and basically you know for Anybody who’s new to this it’s just Inserting little ad codes snippets Whatever you want ads to show up on your Site And i started doing that and like what i Really like is the The revenue is really consistent you Know affiliates you can have like huge Days and then Low days and it can be somewhat volatile But Uh you know with display ads if your Traffic’s Consistent your revenue is generally Going to be consistent it goes up and
Down throughout the year but not Day-to-day so much so i really like that And so i i kind of switched the whole Whole my whole niche content publishing Business over to display ads Uh yeah i i do i did see a bit of a hit On our ads from the covet crisis Obviously I think a lot of people saw it like Decreased quite a lot but it’s been Recovering quite nicely since then so i Think it’s not so bad right like how did That affect you actually Yeah it definitely went down for me too Like it’s i remember uh first week of April March was actually still decent and then First week of april came when it was Like a cliff You know why it’s corporate budgets you Know it’s like they’re monthly so it’s Like they they’re and They’re okay and then like the copyright Budget just is renewed for the month so It just drops you know Yeah i know but fortunately it kind of Bounced back and I got that first week was really bad and I thought oh boy this could be like Really really bad year but it kind of Bounced back a little bit and then like You say It’s uh especially since been in summer It’s slowly sort of climbed back but
It hasn’t been a huge bounce for me Though i have to say it’s been very very Gradual Yeah so it’s like yeah for us we dropped A lot honestly the curves look like the Stock market Like that’s exactly like it was the same Curve you know um For for rpm so it’s like um but i guess It depends on the sites and the issues Especially if you have like Travel travel content or something i’m Pretty sure you didn’t recover at this Point i guess it depends on the industry Um but yeah otherwise yeah i like ads Because Um then you you can rank for any keyword And you don’t really have to worry about Intent You don’t have to worry about pretty Much anything you just need to get People on your site And you get paid and these new networks Right like Arts mediavine et cetera they’ve Massively upgraded the payout from us It used to be i used to hate adsense you Know like i was making like three to Five bucks from adsense per Thousand visitors or something and then Uh I think the first one i tried was azoik It was based on your blog actually Uh i tried the zoik which i think bumped
Me to around 10 bucks or something but The problem with isaac is It made my slide my site really really Slow um And uh and then later i tried uh Medivine actually oh sorry at drive and Uh yeah we got More than 15 rpms and 50 to 20 dollars Be pre-copied Uh and uh and i was like wow this is Actually starting to compete with amazon Especially when they start cutting the Affiliate rates right Yeah i know it’s it is crazy i remember I remember ads I thought i was doing well with that Adsense and then yeah like you had the Same migration i went over to zoick and Like Literally like skyrocketed ad revenue And so Recently this year i i switched again Over to f thrive i was accepted so i Figured why not i sort of like the whole They take care of everything for you so That’s that’s kind of a nice Nice aspect of using your service and Definitely the revenue is Like it’s still it still amazes me Actually like how high You can get ad revenue per thousand Visitors on a site like you say even for For really non buyer intense stuff like Obviously like
A really really good buyer intent Affiliate page is going to outline ads All the time right but when you look at The aggregate when you look at all your Content across a large site You can have a mix of content and that’s Where the ads can sort of I definitely do well with you know Earning money for all of your contact Yeah Um you have income reports right can you Let people know like more or less how Much you make per month with us because You publish it on your blog so i guess People that listen to this podcast Oh yeah yeah might be interested in Knowing that Yeah sure uh yeah i’ve managed to build Up the ad and i do still do affiliate Marketing too you know a fair amount but It’s a Small percentage but i think last month Which was august 2020 It the revenue came in a little over 70 000 just for my niche sites Um that doesn’t include anything like With the whole fast facts where i talk About How i do this stuff that’s a totally Separate business i don’t include so These are just uh i’ve been growing the Number of new sites i’ve had over the Last couple of years so that that takes All of my
My content publishing sites yeah i saw Your breakdown you basically have one Big site that’s like Making most of the money and then you Have several sites in the four figures Basically and then A few that are growing and you kind of Managing that as a portfolio right Exactly yeah i mean the long-term goal Obviously is try to get the all of them Up Quite a bit uh but you know at the end Of the day and i know other people are The same boat as me i mean if you have Multiple sites usually one site is the Big earner so you i mean you’re gonna Dedicate that you’re gonna dedicate the Lion’s share of your your time and your Your reinvestment every month into that Because Why would i you know disregard or ignore The Bread and butter but you know you’re Always trying to grow the other ones and It sure would be nice The main reason i expanded on other Sites is Just to be diversified i mean yeah i’ve Got a site that has a lot of traffic and Errands really well but i mean anybody Who’s been in this business for a number Of years you know you You you could lose 50 percent of your Traffic
Or or more and and you did nothing wrong Or anything and it just happens it’s Just the way it is so you know i’d love To just be diversified into more sites And And would would really help me sleep Better at night for sure Enough that was one of my questions for You actually it’s like you know i was Seeing like you have quite a few things Actually like honestly like For us i hate walking on more than like Three projects at once or something like I i tend to not like this three or four Maximum um But like you have like you you report on Six or seven or something Um and you say you have others i think Um so my question was like how do you Decide Between starting a new site versus Expanding your existing sites basically Yeah what i did is i have 17 in total Which is probably a bit much and a few Of them i’m Probably going to ignore um i i don’t Know you know how you start some of These things and it just kind of fizzles But The reason what i really wanted to do is I started I still write for my sites and so i kind Of wanted to be in a niche where I have even a mild interest in it so
Like i started a travel niche site and i Never planned on doing a travel site but I take a few vacations every year and i Take photos and Whatever and so now i can come back and I don’t know i write about it and so i May not produce a ton of content on These sites But they’re just sitting there and i add Some content a little bit of content Every month and it’ll maybe slowly grow Right it’s just sort of aging and that Sort of thing So it’s just a good way to maybe uh the Way i see it is Sort of start these small sites and use What i’m doing in my life because i like Writing i actually really enjoy writing For travel blog it’s interesting But i have i own you know we own a Couple cars and so i started car site And you know like literally if you own One car Preferably a little bit newer i mean the Amount of articles you can actually Write about Like one car model is ridiculous and so I have a couple of cars and so i can Write about it and so i started Auto blog and that’s the only reason so It’s really just an easy way for me to Come up with easy topics that i can Write really good content about because It’s really just part of my life
Um i play a couple of sports i play a Couple of sports i write about the Sports that i play you know i buy I buy tennis rockets i buy 10 you know Court shoes and all this stuff I can write about it it’s like you can Write about it so fast so this is the Reason i sort of expanded and That that’s basically how i chose my Various new niches So that’s the only selection it’s like Oh i’m doing this in my life i’m just Gonna Say about this basically that’s exactly It because it makes it so easy to write Good articles about i mean like okay i Just bought a new tennis racket And so i could take a couple photos go Play a few games on it and I write about it intelligently and Helpfully to whoever visits the site Because i’ve actually used this racket They can bang those those reviews or Info articles out in like an hour or two And and i kind of enjoy doing it so That that’s really what drives my niche Selection overall especially these days Yeah fair enough um it’s funny because Like people who take our course must be Like banging their head because my Initial action is like 30 videos or like checking all the stats Of everything and you’re like You’re like i just write about whatever
I like and it was working So there obviously there’s multiple ways To skin a cat right it’s like um And and those can work but i think i Think the reason why you don’t have to Worry so much is also because of the way You monetize mostly because when you Monetize those ads again You don’t have to worry too much even About buyer intent or anything like that Because Um anyway with things like retargeting Etc and now google being so smart like They’re doing the same as facebook with Audiences etc They find people on the internet that Want to buy the products and people buy Impressions on your site Even if it has nothing to do with the Issue that you’re writing about Um and so with modern advertising it’s Like um Then that makes essentially that makes Niche traction pretty easy and you can I think most issues i’ve seen it’s like At some point at the server on the toy Hacker pro and Um i think like 40 people send us their Rpms from like Mediavine i et cetera so we got a lot of A lot of data And almost everyone was in the same Range of rpm like you know It was let’s say 13 to 13 to 22
Let’s say that was the range basically For absolutely every site regardless of The niche Regardless of how much traffic they get And everything so like advertising Services at this point They’ll just reward you for road traffic And if you’re able to generate traffic With your and i want to talk a bit about How you pick your topics later because Um i was reading your blog about this as Well like your blog post called i’m Happy with the crumbs And picking an article topic out of a Hat or something so i want to talk a Little bit about that later Um yeah yeah because that’s quite Interesting Um but yeah i’d i i want to talk a Little bit about Thrive because i think people will care About that because that’s your main Modernization method at this point Um when did you start using them january This year 2020. Uh-huh so before you are using Mediavine Years ago i was with azoak a long time And before that was adsense and then i Switched over to a um A different monument trick and then also Adsense again sort of Was doing a lot of testing and then i Went back to zoeck that was really good
For me And then i was accepted and that’s right I always reject internet drive a few Years ago so Um i sort of wrote them off yeah i was I i met the traffic threshold but They’re very very picky right i mean Just because you get the traffic Threshold doesn’t mean you’re In so i decided to apply again late 2019 I was accepted i thought well you know I’ll just i’ll just take the plunge and Move my site over there i subsequently Moved all my sites over to them Yeah it’s like guys check your so you Have a case to decide on your site right Uh a bicycle site That you’re like yeah to show people how You’re doing inside Um my feedback on this site and why Would you refuse to attract probably is The branding actually like you use a lot Of stock images And that’s the kind of stuff that like Uh is a red flag for them so i think if You With the same traffic if you just brand Your home page and if you blog post that Officer on the homepage You’ll probably pass the vetting process Um pro If they didn’t like it the first time Actually like is the they just They want like you know they want mommy
Bloggers basically that’s essentially What they want they want people who like Make recipes in their kitchen and then Just post a picture of that etc And so they’re less fans of like people Who use stock images etc so i i think it Might be that i don’t know if they gave You all the feedback but From other people i talked to that tried To join that that would be Actually interesting okay i didn’t know That Um but now you now you can improve you Can put more sites and you don’t even Have to Hit the 100k traffic to put more sites On media on the On that drive sorry like you only need 50k traffic to your sites i think to add More sites actually Um they did an seo audit for you as all Right They did yeah they they asked if i Wanted to do it sweet it was amazing Actually like i couldn’t believe it Uh i’ve paid for for worse let’s put it That way okay How did that go what happened exactly Well i didn’t really do anything i just Said yeah sure go ahead and they just Email me the results they’ve got this Whole portal that you log into And a whole bunch of stuff but what i Like about i don’t i don’t want to
I don’t i just tell me tell me what the Like top Key problems are and how to fix it and That’s what they did like There was like all these spreadsheets And data and all the stuff like i didn’t Even bother looking into i don’t i don’t Really care but there were some glaring Problems and principally that i had A good number of affiliate links that Didn’t have a no follow attribute to it So that’s a that’s an easy Sort of fix not a fast fix but an easy Fix and then There were uh the biggest problem was a Lot of broken links and this happens you Know i haven’t cleaned my site up over Years broken links happen Outbound internal the whole nine yards And so they just identified those but What was really cool is they said if you Like you can use a service called blog Fixer i never heard about that they said We work with them And we’ll send them your spreadsheets to Them directly you don’t even i don’t Have to get involved which i love Because i don’t want to get involved and They just sent all the Suggested fixes to them and and they Cleaned it all up so i was very happy About that The other interesting thing that they Told me that needed fixing and i didn’t
Know this you know how wordpress by Default will Uh create a separate url for images Right unless you indicate none in the Image editor anyway I had quite a few that in fact i was Using the lightbox i was opening it up It was creating another Another url and they strongly suggested Just get rid of that and just Don’t have your images open at all on Any other uh url so i would like to join Up on that They fixed that as well for me so um you Know these are the types of Tedious fixes that would take a long Time and it’s just really I mean maybe some people know how to do It with automation i don’t And so this service did it They obviously use automation i mean for The what i paid they’re not going to Have some guys sitting there for weeks You paid 200 something dollars right Like 280 275 Yeah yeah yeah that’s pretty good Sizeable Yeah yeah so you got a bunch of seo work Done You get a bunch of seo work done for Free by ads drive and then you just got All the Like they did all the work for 280 Dollars on that service on block fixer
Right Pretty much yeah it was a good deal cool Um I guess like that’s why i like that’s Right because they actually care about You but Um i know that you when you wellness Like you tried as a premium as well Right so it’s like premium they have a Service where they essentially charge You For better ad uh inventory or something It’s a bit weird to me to be honest that Like why don’t you just i guess they Take from your earnings or something but Like how did how did it work for you Because i guess Like i saw some people ask about this on On the toy hacker actually Are you talking about zoeck the azo Premium premium ads Oh yeah yeah you could you get invited i Guess if you have a certain amount of Traffic you’ll get invited to these Premium advertisers apparently they Arranged More direct relationships with Advertisers and so the uh Rpm will go up as a result um i I i always made a profit i did it i took Them up on it when i was with the zillow I made a profit It wasn’t as much as i wanted but i Didn’t like the whole idea of paying
Upfront To be part of a program and then like i Kept telling them i’m like Why can’t you just do the traditional Rev share With the publisher let’s split this However you know you know make it Generous like everybody else But they wouldn’t do it and so like what You know some months my my roi Would be like 20 which is it’s not great And plus When you get in a million couple million Visitors a month you’re you’re upfront Cash like you’re in a high high premium Plan so You got to pay like 15 000 to be in it Right and then you might make like you Might make 22 so you profit seven But you’re out of that you know fifteen Thou for you know Up front for 30 45 days i don’t know Something like that I don’t know that was the one thing i Kept going to talk to him and saying I just don’t really like the setup you Know but they’re sticking with it so it Must be working Yeah i’m quite surprised about this Model it’s like if you’re so confident It’s better like what like make a rev Share even if you take a lot of money Um then it like what feels bad is like You have to pay to put ads on your site
Which is already like Yeah you feel like you’re essentially Selling off your traffic already so You’re giving the traffic and you’re Giving the You’re giving the money and then you Hope for return so you take all the Risks basically Um yeah so i’m um yeah i wasn’t coming I wanted to ask because like maybe it’s Amazing i didn’t try it i just heard About it Um you do profit i mean i never lost Money Okay so i mean it’s it’s kind of dumb Not to do it if you’re invited because You will make money it’s just It’s just the way that the concept that It’s set up is just Feels bad yeah yeah just it doesn’t sit Well with me Enough um did you so i guess that you’re Making money with that strive now though Right Yeah i would say it’s really hard to say I i gotta say i always made really good Revenue with you zoella I don’t think i make if i do make more It’s not much more but It’s almost impossible to track because I switched over in january right It’s it’s hard to know these things Right until let’s say i had like Three years of a zoic data and then you
Need you know at least one or two years Of Right now to be able to really be able To say like yeah when opera went down Because I mean every month is different within a Given year um So so you say it’s very comparable you Say it’s complicated i would say revenue It’s it’s comparable that’s what i would Say i just yeah that’s been my Fine i mean but i i can’t say for Certainty okay i mean it’s close enough That it’s within margin of error that’s What you would say probably Yeah um okay cool um Anything else i didn’t i don’t ask on That network because i want to talk About affiliate marketing after that Okay anything anything i should ask but You’re the pro here like you’re like You’re the guy i read when i want to Know about ad network so Well man uh i could tell you that um You know a lot of people ask me like Well should i put ads On content with affiliate links And i’m like unequivocally yes yes Yes okay i’ve i’ve talked to people who Are like like They’ll slap on mediavine on an Affiliate site and their affiliate Revenue is the same And all they did is they doubled their
Revenue with mediavine display ads it’s Like a no-brainer like I don’t even there might there’s a maybe About 20 Urls in my entire portfolio sites where I would turn off Display ads just because of the way the Affiliate links are working but Aside from that it’s like ads and Affiliate And like it’s just aggregate way more Money so That’s been my experience for sure yeah I tend to like turn it off if it’s like A really high-paying affair program so I’m just going to take an example let’s Say hosting let’s say you have a custom Deal with hostgator they pay you 200 Percent or something something like that Yeah okay then i’ll focus on I focus on the offer uh it’s a lot of Money per cell it’s worth it Um but like if you’re talking amazon Yeah absolutely like we turn that some Together with amazon and we have We’ve made money totally worth it and uh What else would i say you know Just get it get ads on as quickly as you Can i mean if you just start with Adsense like do it put them on And then just work your way up the ad Network food chain so to speak like Getting a zoic as quickly as you can They take
Young sites new sites be a game changer For revenue and then Uh continue you know once you get more Traffic try it try something else and Keep Keep putting the time into it like Because When you when you have a hundred Thousand visitors a month and you Improve your Rpm five dollars it’s a lot of money Like it’s it’s a big It’s a big improvement right relative to What you’re making Um without getting more traffic so I always have over the years really Worked at trying to squeeze out more Money per Thousand visitors because it makes a big Difference yeah And also it’s so much easier now that it Was like five six years ago like it’s Like before you had to mix I remember you were mixing things yeah And media.net i think that’s that was That I had like a cocktail man Cocktail on my site and i would tweak Like i would constantly be Sort of playing around with trying to Get the placements yeah Yeah anyways yeah you’re right you know I mean that’s what i like about thrive It’s like
They just don’t play okay it’s done you Don’t even have to think about it Anymore and which has been really nice Yeah so that’s how it was at least Trying different networks etc Medianet i would not recommend that much Anymore it’s kind of like Not termed to be very good for us uh i Think we still have like one site that Shows some adblocks because like It can’t be any other networks but like Other than that like i i wouldn’t bother It’s like you you make more from that Sense even at this point Um yeah it’s um it’s it’s it used to be A lot harder so people who complain Like should look like should look like a Few years how people were doing ads Before Uh that was a bit of a nightmare Compared to what it is now um i Even knew the the time of like the the Double click manager et cetera you would Input all your ad codes etc and then Put your blocks around it was like a Very very old-school Publisher solution by google it was a Nightmare yeah It was a nightmare to navigate um okay i Want to talk about Marketing now because you still do Affiliate marketing yeah um You do a lot less affiliate marketing in The ads right like you mostly focus on
Those at this point You just have to yeah i’d say like with My niche sites my affiliate revenue out Of that 70k Would be about 10. okay um but one thing That i saw in your income report is in Your expenses that’s like that you use Get lesso Instead of and i think you have an Article on that glasso versus It’s like i was wondering how how you Like it or not because i haven’t tried It actually It’s one of the things i keep wanting to Try i haven’t tried yet yeah Okay well first i think the pricing is Bad i think it’s too expensive and i Told them that but they’re not going to Change it they’re going to listen to me But Here’s why i use it and this is the only Reason you use it say Versus like aawp or any of those other Amazon specific if you want to promote Merchants that aren’t amazon Lasso is awesome because you can input Any affiliate link you want into the Boxes And i do happen to promote a lot of non Amazon stuff And so that’s why i use it because i can Promote some software And you can see i even use it on Facebook you don’t just have to do
Amazon you can yeah And other things it’s great with amazon It’ll pull the image and do all the Stuff that you want An amazon plugin to do but if you want To promote some software or something on Amazon it’s really easy to use it and That That’s why i use it and um i like it for That and It’s worth it i mean it’s 19. they don’t Have an unlimited site option that’s What Kind of annoys me right like they don’t Have like unlimited sites for 60 bucks a Month let’s say right so It’s flat out 19 bucks a month for every Every site you got paid for every second That’s my only beef aside from that i Really like it high enough Um so actually my solution for that it’s Like i It wasn’t released and i was already Like uh you know amazon like was cutting Commissions extra Like okay how do we work on hybrid pages Basically how do we do some amazon Amazon etc And uh i actually we have custom Sections that we built for elementor I like you know those oh yeah yeah yeah Just basically just duplicate them and Just change the links and then just That’s cool there’s a short code in um
All the You can insert the block with gutenberg If you do that right And uh and that’s the solution we have It’s probably not as nice as like a Custom plugin but Um what it does is like we have Essentially full Like full control over even the way it Looks etc and we can change that And do everything so um i guess you Trade a little bit more customizability For a little bit less convenient i would Say Yeah yeah no that’s pretty smart the Elementor solution that’s good Yeah that’s how we do and we do that for The comparison tables as well so you Know like the the All the rage for roundup reviews for Example these days is to put like the Three products on top below the title at This point and then below that you have The article Same you can make a page templates with Elementor you can do these kind of Things and just like insert shortcodes Or you can use custom fields um we do That And then you put this stuff and it just Like essentially looks that way without Having to use Another plugin so i do that but i wanted To know what you do
How lesser was working for you because It is maybe like a More out of the box solution if you Don’t want to deal with it you know Which is me in a nutshell The easy the easy way path of least Resistance I think um i think it’s often the way to Go to actually figure out what works It’s like you can do this custom stuff a Little bit later it’s like Maybe the better way is to start with Lasso figure out what’s working with Your hybrid pages without having to Customize too much And then if you want to like start Optimizing your layouts etc then you can Switch to elementor Um yeah it’s not your model because your Model is doing a lot of pages and not Trying to focus too much on the details Right yeah that’s exactly right I saw another thing that you talked About you talked about using convert box To promote affiliate offers yeah pop-ups Um i’m happy i’m happy because i’ve been Pushing for that pretty hard To a lot of people because it’s like i Was like you guys are leaving a lot of Money on the table especially for High-paying offers it works really well On info content for us etc um we Increased our revenue by 50 on the site Doing that recently actually for example
Um just that It’s amazing man i i think it’s gonna be 10 grand a month Yeah i’ve been doing it for six years Actually i used to do it when we rank For For clickbank reviews right we used to Rank for all the biggest clickbank Reviews And you know how clickbank you know They’ve had the normal price and then They have the discount price you know Like For every offer and what i would do is i Would actually when i would do the Review the normal text of the Content i would put the normal price Like so let’s say they were like oh It’s like sixty nine dollars instead of Two hundred dollars let’s say it’s a Footstep Normal price two hundred dollars every Other review would put the discount Price right away And on exit intent we’d be like oh Special discount 69 dollars instead of 200 kick here to claim the discount only For like four readers and people would Click And this was by far our highest epc some Days were over five dollars epc actually Um From from doing this and that works Really well for us for stores that have
Discount sections as well Um especially for those who use shopify And who have like you know new Promotions every day Then we link to that and we say our Promotion ends at midnight et Click here to get it and we send people To through these custom affiliate links With the pop-ups i was really happy to See that you’re doing that and yeah like I wanted to know how it’s working for You but 10 grams a month is really good Actually like Do you promote like high-paying offers Yeah fairly yeah i mean little lower Conversion Higher i don’t i don’t promote amazon i Promote Uh other merchants and yeah i wouldn’t Recommend putting amazon Links in in the pop-up selection it’s Not allowed i think Uh this this is interesting i i don’t Know i did a live chat i wanted to find Out and i asked and they said They didn’t say it’s not allowed they Said it won’t track it So i don’t really and i’m like I’m like i don’t know about that but i’m Gonna argue with them right so Basically i i took it as like don’t do It so i don’t do it and Yeah i use i use other merchants yeah That’s the thing with amazon right you
Can do the chat twice and get Two different answers yeah but they Don’t also get it because you say pop-up Like so pop-up imagines like a new Browser window popping Above or a browser whereas these are not Real pop-ups these are just javascript That looks like a comes from the pop-up Referring url and so it would absolutely Track it and they’re wrong Um but uh well yeah they don’t get the New ones basically so It would work but they might they might Pit you on the Uh on on breaking the rules and like be Quite annoying I would i wouldn’t risk it even if Amazon everyone hates them you still Probably want to have access to their Fake program At this point so uh yeah oh for sure Yeah i don’t want to lose enough Actually that was one of my questions Like how did the amazon update affect You And did it change your strategy yeah No no i didn’t change my strategy but it Didn’t really affect me like i don’t do A whole lot of amazon So i i can’t really say like I didn’t really notice a difference but I i don’t amazon isn’t a focus for me Fair enough i just like it’s just a Keyword that pops up like that you’re
Like oh actually i could promote Amazon just right now yeah there’s Really nothing that’s all that focus There might be a few reviews Not a lot of traffic um yeah i can’t say I noticed a difference My revenue is about the same as it was But yeah So enough and that’s kind of like the Thing with azure it’s like it’s um it Might be It might be slow to ramp up although It’s a lot better with the new networks But It’s so much more stable than like Swinging for just a few keywords on Google And then just have it going up and going Down etc so Like i think some people will be jealous Of the stability you probably have with Like all your sites etc Um i wanted to jump on traffic next um I know that you’re big on pinterest and Um and Uh on google right is that the only two Ways you drive traffic to your site this Is those Yeah yeah it’s like i was reading your Your your description of your Um income report sites and you are like Ah Pinterest is great every other social Profile is useless
I was like okay well enough i mean if You’re like running an ad business i can Understand that i think social profiles Are here for more if you have like your Own products and things like that for People to follow you know if you’re an Influencer which is a totally different Business like like you would mark with Authority hacker or me on fat stocks Right That’s a totally different business Model like that’s not even apple store Uh At all apples are orange so you know is Social media good for These situations yeah absolutely youtube Instagram all that stuff Absolutely but for like like my Tennis and squash sports website which Is which is evergreen content about What i’m playing and doing you know like No nobody’s going to care right like Even pinterest says it wouldn’t be good For that niche i I don’t even think i think i might be Trying it but yeah i mean You’ve got it you’ve got to pick the you Got to pick the channels that actually Make sense like Could you get two visitors sure but is Two visitors worth The 20 minutes it took to get them no It’s not worth it I like that because you know you go on
Facebook groups about i ico about seo et Cetera and people are like oh you should Diversify Your traffic sources and i’m like It’s like first you need to make money From one thing And then and then and then we’ll see but Uh it’s like It’s not that simple also as i see a lot Of um seos fantasizing about paid Traffic and how Immensely scalable it is etc imagining That the The revenue is going to be the same Whether you spend a hundred dollars a Day or A hundred thousand dollars a day uh and That all stars are gonna Stay the same etc and i feel like um i Feel people don’t Like you know it they fantasize about That idea of diversifying not Understanding the other traffic sources And i i like to hear from your mouse Someone that’s actually doing really Well with this that like actually Focused just on Seo and maybe pinterest um you know they Put it this way Okay if you’re diversified okay and Let’s say you’ve got 45 of traffic from google which is a Pretty low percentage for most sites Right that’d be really low but let’s
Just say that and let’s say you got 25 From pinterest And let’s say the balance from twitter Facebook etc I would consider that for a niche site Really diversified traffic source I mean i mean that’s what is diversified As you can hold for but let’s put it This way If all your google traffic died Overnight And you were left with the balance are You really going to be motivated to work On that site No i wouldn’t i’d be like it’s a goner It’s out right the value is plummeted So if you’re going to work on Diversifying your traffic and get just a Few trickles and it’s just not really Worth that like At the end of the day google is google Is is you know the The big traffic driver there are so There are some sites with where Pinterest Actually is that the main traffic source And i’ve talked to people with that Which is interesting And it can be huge traffic uh but not a Minor like that pinterest is a solid Secondary but that’s that’s it Okay actually that was gonna be my next Question it’s like i used to do Pinterest
I haven’t done in a while to be honest i Even published our blueprint on this Because it’s just updated So i had to ask you like um what’s the Play on pinterest these days like did Anything change from the old telewind up Days or not really uh yeah quite a bit i Actually have a whole course on Pinterest i’ve i This year was like i don’t know people Pinterest Did some changes with its algo at least That’s what i’ve read i don’t know i Don’t know the people Interest they don’t tell me these things But i can tell you i developed some new Strategies That work really well um they’re a Little bit more labor intensive i think Than they were in the past i still use Tailwind for scheduling but not a lot of The other bells and whistles they offer And I was able to like from i think it was Like february Uh into like six to eight weeks later i Went from like 75 000 monthly visitors From pinterest over 300 And it’s still well over 300 i’ve Onboarded a few other sites and They’re starting to get some really good Traction on pinterest as well Keep in mind these are pinterest Friendly niches all right like seriously
Like Um if you’re if you’re in a niche we’re Not visual like Pinterest not worth really trying but if You’re in a visual niche i would say Pinterest right now offer some really Good opportunity for some Some incremental traffic like 320 330 000 visitors from pinterest Is uh is pretty sweet for for a new Site and i’m i’m very happy with that It’s been worth a lot of the effort i Put into trying to figure that out yeah Can you tell us more or less like what You do for pinterest on some of your Sites like um I’ll tell you a little bit i’m going to Give you a whole course no i’m not Asking the whole course i’m asking Please get an idea of what’s going on You know yeah it really boils down to Fresh content okay Here i’m going to sum it up in a Nutshell right here tree pinterest In terms of unique content as you do Google for search content it boils down To that Big difference it works yeah our Approach on social these days is Actually to Post content natively as well it’s like I mean it kind of depends like on the Site where you try to drive engagement Is like post content natively and build
Retargeting audiences when we sell Products and then i guess for you you Need to get the pixels on pinterest it’s A little bit different Maybe you can tease let’s say you have a List post you can tease three things And get people to click or something Right yeah yeah i pretty much i don’t i Don’t I don’t get involved in group boards Or i think this is that right like i’m Not interested That’s just a ton of work i i should Knock it though because i do know people Who are still getting really good Results with those i don’t think it’s a Dead Approach i think it works just everybody Worked well for me let me put it this Way The time put into it wasn’t worth the Result and that’s That’s an important thing i look at for Everything it’s like how much time or Money Am i putting into this and is it worth It or could that Those resources be used better elsewhere And for that yeah totally i Just focus on just posting my own stuff Unique stuff Consistently and that’s been that’s been Really big for me Cool um that makes sense i need to
Definitely get back into this Um want to talk about keyword selection Picking your topics et cetera because You’d look like you’re doing very Different stuff from us actually Uh and i saw that you also bar answered The public premium and i was like quite Surprised about this Oh yeah i know right i’m like am i the Only person who bought that i don’t know It’s like yeah it’s like youtube premium And answer the public premium is there Two things But um can you just walk us through Because because you’re so focused on Advertising can you work us on Through like how you pick your keywords Because it must be quite different from What we do From what i’ve read on your site oh yeah I’m at the point now where i need so So many new article ideas a month that Uh if it’s even like an auto suggested Suggestion with even google search like It comes i don’t care what search volume Is Like if it’s actually just registered as A search sentence or phrase or whatever It gets put on the list and i’m getting An article on it that’s where i’m at i Mean i’m really drilling down right now And it’s great for my larger traffic Site even though there’s a lot of Authority and i can rank for a lot of
More more competitive keywords But i put it on there because i mean i Have i have five thousand article i just Need i just need More topic ideas so i’m not really that Judicious In terms of news sites that approach is Really useful because They have no authority i’m not going to Rank for anything really half decent so I got to go for the really really low Competition stuff and so It that’s been my approach i just sort Of sit there and like Answer the public i always find a few Winners at least one for every seed Input i put And that’s why i pointed up the 99 bucks Because it’s sort of like i could sit There In an hour session and that alone will Generate I don’t know 30 40 articles for me topic Ideas really really quickly Really fast right and that’s really Important to me is how fast i can do This And so trying to work around their Freebie two a day just wasn’t working i Mean It just this is totally worth it and i Do the same in ahrefs and i do the same With keyword shitter.com And i just sort of motor through these
And i’m just like i just fill up a Spreadsheet in a few hours and that’s it And it has to be Low competition really really specific Topics questions um even listicles Um i i write product reviews but I make sure i i own the product and i Use it i do have one in-house writer who I send the products to and they write They pretty much that’s all they do is Write reviews so that’s that’s what i’m Doing Well enough um what is low competition For you like what would you say is Low competition because i guess everyone Has a definition of that Uh yeah i like ideally like if ahrefs is A guide it’s not Like you know that’s the way it is but Anything like below three is pretty Sweet below Five is good kd difficulty oh keyword Difficulty but again i mean like It’s a i rank for keyword difficulty 40 Plus Um without building links and i don’t Rank for keyword difficulty zeros that I’ve published So it’s not like this hundred percent Like oh if you go after keyword Difficulty zero Your guaranteed rank it’s not going to Work that way it’s a numbers game and That’s why i just put out a lot of stuff
Yeah um so yeah for me that would be a Low i almost sort of like you know that You know when ahrefs Generates shows like 10 searches a month For a particular really long Long tail phrase or sentence that’s That’s a That’s almost a sure fire that that you Know you’re going to rank for that Pretty easily right When you write for 10 searches that was My next question actually i’m glad you Transitioned to this Yeah you’re good it’s perfect you can Come back you know When you write um for a really low Search volume ah ships like let’s say Zero or ten or something because i’m Sure you get some keywords into the Public that have like you put them in a Traffic Zero searches you know um like What what what traffic do you expect to That page like what what happens in real Life after you write the article because I know it’s not the case i know it’s Like it probably gets a lot more traffic Than what you see on ahrefs but i’m Curious what you’re experiencing Oh yeah and again it’s everything it’s a Numbers game but you can get 1000 visitors a month from something That ahrefs reports 10 searches a month Usually my articles are fairly long even
Going for something obscure so you’re Naturally going to hit a lot Of keywords just with the content right It’s not just the one keyword So i mean as a result of that you’re Going to end up with usually a lot more Traffic than the 10. But it does happen where an article just Didn’t work And i get less than 10 and that’s that’s A dud And these happen so you can’t expect Like winners all the time but generally Speaking Um i go for these ridiculously low Search volume according to hrefs Because i know if i do a good article on That there’s a lot more traffic to be Had There really is and i’m sort of flying Under the radar because a lot of The bigger brand sites they probably Filter these Out for these right they don’t want them Right they’re like they’ve got a formula And they’re like you know we Our minimum would be 150 200 whatever it Is And so here you got this mass and The lower you go the more keywords there Are for a particular topic it’s sort of This Exponential list right so like if you’re If you’re digging around in the mock
With the 10 and 20 searches per month That a lot of other sites don’t want but The number of Options of keywords is just mind-blowing Like There’s so many so that that’s where i’m That’s right i go and that’s what i’m Looking for I’m doing that a lot of marketing these Days are like these these tend to be Like really really high intense so that Conversion rate should so the roof if You like have a very specific like like Yeah i don’t know like best shoes for People who have only photos And stuff like that and then you might End up like you might end up having a Good conversation and we do that a lot Like we do these content hubs now Don’t you have a problem with keyword Can improvisation don’t you have pages That like maybe like Start eating each other i do i probably I probably do but i don’t worry too much About it Um i i do my best so i mean i have a i Have a master spreadsheet that’s an Absolute Like beast i’ve got every site in there As a separate worksheet we’ve got every Article that’s ever been published on Any of the sites so We do check but yeah have Things fallen through crack shirt have i
Doubled up on topics where There could be cannibalization usually When i find with cannibalization what Happens is google’s just not going to Rank It’s not really going to even list one Of them so oh yeah that was a that was Didn’t work out whatever i mean You know i don’t i don’t sweat these Things like all i all i like is that They aggregate if things growing Like i just keep doing what i’m doing Fair enough i think uh so you’re taking This just like bird’s-eye view of your Business and you’re like well if it’s Growing overall it’s fine basically Yeah i guess you can get these free seo These formats right for them to figure That out for you right Yeah i don’t i didn’t really dig into The end of that much of the data The only thing i really took away was The key suggestions for the fixes the Technical stuff i didn’t i didn’t get Into The end of the day i’m not gonna go and Really worry Too much about yeah if i got five Articles that there’s some overlap on it Like Maybe i’ll get to it i got bigger fish To fry frankly Um you know you only have so much time In a day and so much energy you’ve gotta
You’ve gotta dedicate that to what’s Gonna get best results Yeah fair enough and talking about Energy and things to do You outsource most of your content i Guess because you’re publishing many Times a day right Yes yeah i outsource most of it and You’re using Content services for whatever it on your Site right a variety i have a few In-house freelancers as well so i do a Real mixed bag right now You know writer access is probably one Of my favorites Uh you got you you can go Lower pricing go really high in there And everything in between which i like A lot of people with certain niche Expertise there if you got to seek them Out There’s a lot of a lot of flexibility of That platform and i like that And the content is generally very good Uh what else am i using yeah in-house A little bit of text broker for some Really simple stuff if i need it um And quick uh and then i don’t care too Much but i think generally speaking That’s about it Okay um so then you have a few in-house People as well right Yeah i have some in-house i’m trying a New service i’m not gonna mention what
It is right now it’s way too early i’ve Just got a few articles back So i don’t want to mention anything but I will see how that goes i’m constantly Trying new services But the in-house writers sort of they Sort of just Do their thing on a particular site it’s Not like they’re writing for Eight sites they they’re like i got a Smartwatch tech Gadget type site because i’m really into Smart watches so For me it’s like i like buying them i Like to tinkering but i did hire a guy To also do that and Write the reviews and take the photos And that’s all he does and he’s really Into him too so So that’s one example of a freelancer Working on the sides That’s more that’s not what we do Usually it’s like uh we’ve we’ve always Struggled with common services i’m a Little bit jealous because that makes The hr so much easier actually Yeah for sure so Yeah i’m a i’m jealous maybe i should Try a site maybe i should make a case That you would just outsource everything To services and see what happens Um do you do anything building No not natural Which they do in droves yeah that’s
Great but i don’t i don’t pay someone to Do outreach and try to get guest posts Published and Linked back to me now i don’t do any of That so You do nothing at all holding building It just happens Okay yeah how long does it take for a New site to take off without Being building a long time but just Because i don’t link build right Like yeah yeah i could i could probably Speed it up many many times if i Invested a few thousand into links but Um and i’m not saying i won’t ever do That and i’ve done it years ago And i used to do a ton of it but i just Find right now it’s like i I have the luxury of being able to be Patient and just waiting in any time the Links do arrive and The content does rank and traffic grows So i just take the patient route You get a higher profit margins as well Because essentially you didn’t like pay Like you didn’t pay for someone to build The link so you didn’t pay for the link So Like the money you have at the end is is More profit Um yeah links like uh late bill is not Cheap clearly Like it’s it’s like even if you don’t Pay for the links
Paying the people ends up being actually And the tools and everything and so on Like Yeah it’s not cheap like we end up uh It’s like I think the best we’ve ever done is like When we were in a health niche And we just invented shotgun skyscraper Nobody else was doing it We went down to i think it was like i Can’t i can’t say for sure so don’t Quote me But like like four or five dollars per Link but now Now we pay way more than that um Obviously so like and it was like a Niche way was it to do link building Kind of like you know The stars align perfectly you know yeah Yeah but like but like Yeah like that that would be a lot more These days cosplaying but also we’re a Bit more picky on what links we want to Our sites Um but yeah i like it i like that you do Know link building to be honest it Really makes me want to just uh Satisfy outsource content not look too Much just pick some random keywords and See what happens actually Maybe i should try that actually you’re Making me think you know Whatever whatever your hobby is whatever Interests you just write
It’s actually fun i still like writing For the stuff i like writing about the Trips i take i like writing about sports I enjoy I like writing about my car which i Drive daily you know this is easy stuff Like early stuff and visitors come to it It’s fun as well it’s like it’s like Yeah You know it’s like it’s like a diary It’s like uh it’s therapeutic i just get To write about my life on a particular Site and Uh try to make some jokes and you write About it it makes you money so you leave More of your life so you can write more About stuff It looks like it’s just a circle you Know After this i go bike ride and i can come Back and write about my electric bike Have you ever considered buying drop Domains to start your site so that you Don’t have to think too much about link Building but get a bit faster success Oh no i when it comes to like all that Seo stuff i don’t know anything i um i I’ve bought domains by accident i’ve Registered domains that were previously Registered and they were cooked and it Was it was you know just a huge delay And i had to change all the sites so i Don’t really know how to do the due Diligence to look
For those good domains so i i now my Default is to make sure they were never Registered at least It’s not registered and way back i know There are ways to Get an advantage i i just don’t that’s Not my thing i don’t know I’m not gonna learn it i’m not Interested try to start from scratch Fresh site and just wait wait it out you Know if you’re new to this Like 12 months you’re barely going to Get a whole lot of results 12 to 24 Months Good things start happening after the Two years that’s when If you’ve been consistently publishing Really good content going for the right Keywords It takes 24 months to really start Seeing some good results you got to hang In there it takes a long time Yeah i usually tell people the first Year you’d rather walk in mcdonald’s in Terms of revenue don’t worry about it Like that then it gets better but Usually the first year is like yeah It’s pretty much worse than the Mcdonald’s job Um yeah it’s no money you’re working for Nothing and you’re working on A on a hope but something i’m glad it’s Like that If it was fast money there would be so
Much more competition For sure i know so i am glad it works That way because it just keeps Enough people away so that we can keep Doing this you know um Have you ever considered selling Websites like um are you just gonna Explain forever I can’t know i’ll ultimately sell them i Imagine Um i i i don’t know i I’m i’m not i’m probably no i know i’m Not objective enough about this i Probably should sell some Okay i tend to always think they’re Getting they’re going to grow in value And they’re going to grow forever And i don’t i’m not objective about that I get emotionally sort of It impacts my decision making so i Should sell but i don’t and i I don’t have any plans to sell any now But who knows i mean i got a lot of Sites right now and And that’s another reason i wanted to Expand into a lot of sites is Is let’s say i could get a handful of Them to five thousand dollars per month Rather than having one site which is Your whole business you sell that site You’re out of business but if you have a Handful of sites and you sell one You get a nice cash influx and you’re Still in business
So that was another reason for that so Yeah maybe i mean you know i get a Get a couple of sites to five or ten Thousand dollars per month that could be A good way To get some cash to maybe try something Different Yeah i mean it looks like you’re doing Fine with the cash Flow situation of your company based on Your income report so it’s like i guess Uh I guess you could do that without Selling your sites so i can see why You’re not selling Um you know if you don’t need the cash Right now to do the stuff and you can Already Do the stuff you want then there’s not Much incentive but it’s true it’s like You know things go down as well i mean Look for us like how submission went Down a lot for example It like the medical day it went down a Lot i mean like everyone knows about This Um well we should probably have sold it I would probably be like You know quite a bit uh have quite a bit More money in the bank account if i saw It at the right time so these things can Happen It’s fine it’s easy to look at us and be Like oh this happened to them but it can
Happen to anyone Uh love the business especially when You’re just at the wrong time in the Wrong place it just happens you know so Yeah yeah at the same time if you’re Largely cash flow positive maybe just Collecting the check every month If it lasts long enough even if it Crashes eventually you might just make The same money As if you sold the site you know true That’s true It’s a good point so it’s like it’s kind Of like hey can i still make this money For two years or something and usually If you believe that the next few years Would be fine I would probably hold i feel not sure Then maybe consider selling them Um yeah if you started over today and Had a day job Would you do what you do now or would You do something different I know i do what i do now because this Is what i like doing i tried a lot of Things but I wouldn’t do this business if i didn’t Like it this isn’t like Because i think there’s a lot of money Or you know i like doing Being my own boss or any of the Collateral benefits as i call them i do Because i like it i like writing for my Sites i like
Hiring writers for my sites i like Watching them grow I really like almost every aspect of This so no i would do exactly what i’m Doing And it would be a content business that Would be monetized with display ads I would focus on one site if i were Starting over i had a day job i mean i Think There’s just no way unless you had a ton Of disposable money from your day job And you could finance a whole bunch but That’s unlikely so yeah no i would do Exactly what i’m doing i would write all The content so i would pick a niche that I’d be very very interested in So i could write really good content i Know a lot of people say pick Pick based on on the money for me It’s just so much better to pick on what You’re interested in or what you’re Doing Yeah we do both actually so in our Course it’s like you know you do all the The money stuff and then at the end There’s a big section like are you still Interested so we make People walk in all the issues for a While and we’re like well the point of All of this was not just to collect all The data is to see If you puking in your mouse next time You open the spreadsheet when you walk
If on yeah probably you should not do That because there’s hundreds of hours Ahead of you Yes so it’s like we use that as a test For people to essentially like that’s Good i like that Play around and like read the Competitors sites and like do some Keyword research do some all of that so They get to do a bit of everything and Then they’re like well You want to do a lot more of this or not You know um So yeah i agree like you need you need To enjoy it to some degree like I’ve studied science in issues i didn’t Like and usually they were not that Successful And the sizing issues i enjoy Even if the niche is objectively worse Tends to Do better than was expected initially at Least Even though obviously some issues make More money than others as well Um but in display as i would say it’s a Lot flatter in terms of initiatives Versus affiliate marketing right after Marketing You know you’re going to mattress niche You can make Millions yeah you go into I don’t know like a random phone Protection stuff or whatever like stuff
That’s really cheap or something like You’re not gonna make a lot of money Um so it’s like uh it’s like but for us Because of retargeting because of Audience targeting instead of Like what’s the contextual content of The page and the way our networks work It’s a lot flatter and i think that’s Also good i think it’s like For people who like do the niche Research in effect marketing they’re Like it wouldn’t work but they really Want to work in that niche maybe they Should look at your model actually Yeah yeah i mean it makes a difference If you like what what you’re doing I like the topic it helps Cool um my last question is what’s your Plan for the future I’m i’m doing exactly what i’m doing i Mean i’m doubling down big time i think Like looking at From an investment perspective investing In content right now is a good Investment it could be wrong in 12 Months But for now you know looking at the Results i’ve been getting it’s good No i i’m sticking to the exactly what I’ve done now for Several years it’s it’s working really Well it’s best place to be like usually When people tell you they have brand new Projects that they’re not so excited
About what they’re doing right now Um no yeah if you say that that means You’re really happy about what you’re Doing okay um Is there anything i should have asked You i forgot to ask that we should have Talked about No i think you covered the gambit Thorough appreciate it No worries i spent like uh i spent like Half a day just reading your blog your Newsletters et cetera Oh wow yeah oh it’s like you know i Wanted to do it properly Uh well i just uh want to thank you for Joining and if people want to read more About your stuff where should they go Petsexblog.com that’s pretty much the The blog you can see access to uh The youtube channel podcast whatever but The blog is the central point Yeah i like it because you just talk About your real life experiences running Websites And they’re not then definitely i’m Surprised sometimes Not keyword oriented articles you just Like whatever you feel like writing Um and sometimes i see your titles i’m Like what’s going on here I know i know a lot of people do you Know what that sex for me is Is again yeah i like talking about this Stuff i like writing about the stuff
I just i just put out there what i think Is interesting and hopefully maybe It provides a tip that’s all i’m doing There it doesn’t get a lot of traffic It really doesn’t it’s not a big site But i have fun doing it And some people find the site and that’s Great and so I might work a little bit on the Keywords but i just try to have fun with It Well enough i think people would enjoy It actually like a lot of people like The income reports so john has some Income report there so if you want to Follow him etc like yeah people love Following that stuff so Go ahead check it out i hope we send you Some traffic here uh And i will thank you for joining uh the Podcast that was really interesting Maybe we’ll do A follow-up maybe in a year or two or Something just to see all of that is Going Uh but yeah thank you again for joining That was really good yeah thanks a lot Guy appreciate it All right so we’re gonna close it here Guys uh if you enjoy this podcast don’t Forget to click on the subscribe button Below and drop us a Thumb up you can also subscribe on all The audio platforms and we’ll see you
Next week for another episode with [Music] You