Hey attorney hackers welcome to this Week’s episode we were chatting with Mark and Trying to figure out what stuff our Followers and our listeners were Struggling with When it comes to growing their site and Building real authority sites Not just slim affiliate sites right and One of the topics that came out Was email marketing i mean when you read About email marketing online and when You read Blog posts about it etc you’re gonna Keep hearing that it’s the best source Of traffic and that the money is in the List and it’s all amazing etc But in actual practice a lot of like Affiliate site owners or like people who Start with online marketing Tend to really struggle to get it going And understand how they’re going to Make money from this and how they’re Going to be building an email list That’s big enough to make Enough money so we decided to actually Open up a bit and talk more about this We usually talk Way more about seo and affiliate Marketing in general But email marketing is something that Mark and i have been doing for a really Long time i mean you Probably have seen our product launches
Etc so we are quite well versed In email marketing and we are going to Be opening up a little bit on that side Of online marketing that we know about More than we usually do but most Importantly we want to do this from the Point of view of someone who just has You know a review site ranking on google And makes money with affiliate marketing We want to see how you can essentially Make that transition and start making Money Realistically with email marketing Rather than just relying on google So if you’re excited to build a new Traffic source and a new source of Revenue i think you should be quite Excited about this However because this is a pretty large Topic it just doesn’t fit into one Podcast episode unless we were sitting For like four or five hours just talking With mark So what we’re going to do is we’re going To be kicking off a little series where We’re going to be talking about Different aspects Of email marketing for people who want To transition into it and this episode Is going to mostly focus On capturing these and a large part of That episode is going to be focused on Opt-in popups because from the Experience that we have and from the
Point of view of someone who receives Traffic from google For quite relevant keywords it’s by far The best way to build your email list So buckle up because there’s going to be A lot of information In this episode if you enjoy the topic And you’re excited for it Then let us know in the youtube comments Because again it helps us know What you like and what you guys don’t Like so we can focus more on that But for now let’s get started Everyone welcome back to the atari Hacker podcast in today’s episode we Are going to be talking about collecting Emails on sites and essentially starting To build A list and the best tactics that have Worked for us In the past and we are going to have a Follow-up podcast To this in a couple weeks i guess we’re Going to have an interview in between And we’re going to have a follow-up Podcast That is going to be talking about Essentially what to do with those emails You collected how to monetize them etc Because It seems to also be a common problem With people and i think that goes into The idea of diversifying from just Having amazon reviews et cetera which a
Lot of people should really consider Doing i know it’s easy to just queue Another review rather than figuring Another monetization method but if you Want to find stability in that kind of Business if you want to sleep at night If you don’t want to be afraid of Amazon commission changes as much as a Lot of people are these days Then that’s you know the first step Towards that and obviously To talk to me uh about this i have uh The best guess possible i have Cookies back no no no mark how’s it Going I’m really uh i’m really that’s the Second time you’ve done This joke in like four days or something But people were not on the live like no I wonder how many times you’re gonna Keep reusing it But uh that was a good one challenger Accepted So uh to answer the question how i’m Doing or how it’s going it’s going good There’s a lot of snow outside And i’m not sure if i can get my car out Of my driveway so Yeah fun times well at least you have a Car i might have one next week but let’s See Uh never mind let’s talk about Collecting emails And not about all your fancy sports cars
That you Keep teasing people all the time the Reason i’m saying that by the way is Because Let’s tell the full story right it’s Like what do you say in that Video no no no no people have to know What do you say Mark doesn’t have a podcast i made some Joke about uh Having a sports car because like all Internet marketers drive lamborghinis Uh or something like that um but it was Very very sarcastic And uh i guess that kind of went over The top of someone’s head and they asked For a refund on the course Because they thought i was being uh Using their money to buy a spot cows i Mean yeah basically Um yeah that’s it i drive a used Volkswagen So yeah there you go glamorous you know Uh but anyway uh yeah so that was funny Like that was on the One of the refund requests that was last Week or something and that made me laugh A lot because I mean anybody who knows us just to turn This around just to turn this around Like this is a This is a reason why uh you can have a Lot of faith in Our refund policy because literally we
Gave that guy the refund because that Was his reason for For one of you you bragged about having A sports car you don’t actually have Yeah so basically you did the same as Every other online marketer Classic classical marketing Okay never mind okay let’s talk about Collecting emails people came for that But like I thought that was an interesting story And people should know so if if you Pissed off at kalska at mark’s car you Can also get away from the map courses Um okay collecting emails Um first of all we’re gonna talk about What you tell people to collect their Emails And there’s going to be a term that Comes up here that you have heard about Before which is A lead magnet and read magnet is a Reason for people to give you their Email Especially with all the privacy concerns Et cetera these days people are more Wary of giving their emails and Let’s be honest like i think the opt-in Rates that i’m observing on stuff that We run These days is lower than it was like Five years ago people are a bit more Concerned giving their emails today than They were five years ago
And so five years ago maybe you could Get some emails just telling people hey Join my email list and people would just Join especially if you’re like really Sympathetic and Not bragging about having fancy calls i Think even even before that i mean five Years ago that wasn’t a very good tactic It wasn’t 10 years ago that was like barely okay I mean i remember reading about this This kind of stuff in in 2009 And yeah people were saying don’t just Have a subscribe here that’s terrible it Rare It rarely works um so you have to you Have to give people a compelling reason To opt in Not just hey get updates or join my list Uh there needs to be some kind of Content which they can only access Through signing up to that email list it Can be content you can also offer like Discounts and stuff if you Have a product based website but if You’re an affiliate uh if you have An affiliate website and you don’t have Anything like that then uh Some kind of premium content packaged up In Some kind of nice nice way it can it can Be like a pdf like essentially a blog Post turned into a pdf that you deliver To people
Uh it could be a video it could be for Any format really but Just has to be something that that Someone would want Yeah um like and the reason i’m saying Is like i know because i’ve run it i’ve Like when we started collecting emails On like how submission for example The first pop-up was like join our email List and we were getting around one Percent of opt-in right But these days if you run something like That you get less probably around 0.2 or 0.1 something you know Uh like it would be much much worse so You you have to give a reason people And i have like a very simple method to Come up with a lead magnet it’s not Necessarily going to give you the Absolute best but it’s a very easy way To get started and essentially i copy List posts that are popular in my niche Um like people like list lead magnets um So like you know we we have some Examples so for example i put Uh 10 best affiliate 10 best affiliate Marketing tools like people would obtain In this niche in not only hacker If i made a list of 10 best affiliate Tools and also what i like about this is Very easy to put together like i just Need to make a list boom 10 And people want to know and they opt in For that five tactics that you can use
Today to lose body fat to lose belly fat For example Like on health emission i would run this All day every day that would run really Well One of our opti one of our lead magnets That got Over a hundred thousand optins was 23 Juicing recipes for better health and Losing weight Um and that worked also really well for Example so Lists work really well and what i like To do to find what i want to make a list About Is i go into content explorer on ahrefs And i just type my topic right so I type juicing for example and i look at Like What has the most shares and links and i Say what is the hottest List basically in my niche and usually i Would do that Um but the thing is like with the lead Magnets you don’t give people a pdf with Like an article that’s you know Um you want something that’s a little Bit more visual feels a little bit more Produced and so on so people are a bit Excited And most importantly you want your lead Magnets to be very fast to consume like Most people don’t even open the lead Magnet right very many people get
Excited about it And by the time the email gets to that They already don’t care anymore Um that’s that’s uh you know the 20th 21st century for you 20th century no People Read books at that time uh anyway That that’s basically how you want to do That and so what i like to do for lead Magnets these days I used to do them on powerpoint so i Used to make something that looks like a Slideshow and then i would export it as A pdf We would just like quickly scroll Through it like let’s say 10 best effort Tools you know One slide per tool you know i don’t know Like ahrefs and like Click magic for example is a really good Link tracker so i’d be putting like the Logo Click magic maybe put like some kind of Like italic below like The best link tracker in the business And i put like a short description like One paragraph And i even put a link like go check it Out and very often I would make these links an affiliate Link so i would make money with my Lead magnets by the way just don’t do That with amazon links Yes you’re not allowed to do that with
Amazon links but with anything else You’re allowed to do that Um so and and now you can do better than Powerpoint You can do powerpoint if you want but Canva is usually better and they already Have this kind of like slideshow Templates And you just need to edit that and it’s Very very easy you can download it after That as a pdf And that’s your lead magnet and it’s you Know you don’t need a big piece of Content don’t think that you need to Give a lot to people It’s more about snackable content right These lists they are cool because you Just fix through it And when there’s something that’s Interesting you you just stop and read It and then if there’s not you just Scroll to the next one And people like that so that’s how you Do a modern lead magnet And uh i’ll probably do a tutorial for Today hacker pro at some point On uh building canon valley magnets Because it’s quite powerful And you can make some really cool stuff Using both the presentation templates But they also have like kind of like Slideshow templates for instagram things Like that you can export that as a pdf And then um and then use that and it can
Be a good link magnet actually so That’s a lot how to sell new magnets Pretty much anything else you want in Magnets ah no Okay so now let’s just jump into the Bread and butter tactic That’s going to be generating easily At least more than half of your emails Even if you run like three or four other Tactics For us usually this pop this this pop up Okay here’s the spoiler It’s pop-ups surprise Oh god i’m terrible at this um anyway This tactic yeah usually generates you Know 60 70 Of emails quite easily uh and yeah that Is pop-ups and people Hate pop-ups uh i wouldn’t say everyone Hates them i would say that Every internet marketer who is not using Them to collect emails but it’s just Sort of Hates them because they they just get Annoying right we we know what’s up we Know why someone’s Doing this and it just kind of gets in The way but you are not your audience So get over yourself and Use pop-ups pop-ups will work it’s not About that it’s like if you provide free Content if i’m spending the time Like we do provide good content on our Sites i’m happy about the content we
Have on our sites And then we give that to for free to People and so i feel completely Legitimate Monetizing my content when i spend the Amount of time and money we spend on Content it’s like Zero zero remotes doing that it’s like Of course It’s like nothing is 100 free you don’t Have to opt in but like the people who Obtain essentially build the resources That i need to keep providing that free Content people So don’t feel bad monetizing your Content don’t forget putting call to Actions You’re not evil because you’re making Money it takes time to build a good Website and it takes money it takes Paying people it takes all of that so i Have no problem Putting a pop-up on my content because They work really well and collecting Needs and when you’re good with your Email list That makes you money and just just to Give you an idea of how well they work When in the early days when we first Started authority hacker and remember at The time our audience was much smaller It was very Sort of targeted people were really Interested in the the few specific
Things we were talking about at the time But we had categories on the site where We would have eight percent opt-in rate Which is insane like really really good And very very rare You’ll get a site like doing that well i Heard one case when someone had 10 But usually um the i mean even these Days less than one percent is Is quite common i was gonna i was gonna Say it would be hard for us to Appreciate today even if you were in the Same conditions like it’s one of these Things where it used to be easier before You know Yeah but just because the opt-in rates Are low i mean even if you have 0.5 Opt-in rate i mean most most websites Out there have Thousands of visitors of a month if not Per day Uh so you can really start getting a lot Of emails quite quickly and the value Of an email subscriber to any business Is Infinitely higher than the value of a Standard visitor so it really is Something that’s worthwhile Doing and if you want to understand how To extract value we’re going to make a Full podcast on that in two weeks like I’m just repeating it but Uh there will be another episode to Follow up on that so we don’t just tell
You to collect emails and you’re like ah What do i do with my emails Which is a lot of people who start with Email marketing to be honest Um so we’re going to talk about that in Another episode it deserves a full Episode Uh easily um before that though yeah i Have a question for you So yeah regarding opt-in pop-ups Um there was some instruction or some Guidance from google Several years ago that said uh if you If you put opt-in pop-ups or Interstitials or however they phrased That That was like a negative ranking fact or A potential issue like I haven’t noticed anything about like Any actual impact on that have you Yeah we’ve done yeah we’ve done it Actually when they rolled that update we Actually cut it on some sites and then Put it back up just to try to see like If rankings would move right so i wanted To really try to isolate that so we Changed nothing Uh and we just like cut the pop-up Remove like put it back for like 30 days Then put it back And just kind of compare the rankings on Some big sites like sites we’re getting A lot of traffic and so on And then and then you’ve got this you
Got this in 2021 this core web vitals Uh yeah update so well i can’t tell you Are you a little bit are you a little Bit skeptical about that Well what happened with the pop-ups well I can tell you is that It’s probably a factor but it’s such a Small factor that You don’t even see it like it’s probably Within the range of variation that you See in your analytics that it might just Be Blending in there it doesn’t mean it Doesn’t exist it can just mean that it’s Such a minor factor That you it really isn’t worth losing Thousands of leads per month in exchange For these Like maybe 200 visits that we’re losing On the big sites or something Um because we’re like ranking point zero Zero zero one position Lower on average or something you know Um so what i can tell you is that Pretty much all our sites run pop-ups at This point and uh And we’re fine you know it’s like and We’ve managed to rank stuff etc even in The sports Site that we mentioned that is doing Really well like at really low dr etc We’ll lower the ad on our competitors by Quite a lot we run a pop-up Uh on exit intent on that site and we’ll
Talk about all of that these triggers Etc in a minute but We’re running that and also the same i Rolled that out Something like six months maybe not Maybe like five months ago on that side Uh and we did like a classic affiliate Offer so it’s not really collecting Emails this one is just sending people To an offer And we didn’t notice actually the Rankings kept climbing actually on that Side so Again it it i’m not saying it’s not a Factor because You know you’re going to go to john Muller you’ll be like oh sorry heck i Said it’s not a factor And then johnny was going to be like He might be right um but but i’m just Saying It’s probably not a big factor if it’s One and so he would be right But he would be lawyering you like Google does all the time you know Um so to go back to co-work vitals We can’t tell what’s gonna happen like i Can’t tell you how big that’s gonna be Right But i have a strong suspicion that is Going to be the same story And the reason why i believe is going to Be the same story and where people are Going
Completely overboard over cover it or Cover vitals right now but I don’t think it’s just gonna be like a Big fl like people will talk about it For a day then they will notice no Change And they’ll go back to their life it’s Because It’s like we live in that little seo World where everyone knows about all These updates et cetera but Google has to cater for a much larger Audience they have to cater for All these small businesses that you know Appear on google and Rely on google and google relies on them To provide the content people are Searching for Um that don’t follow the news of the Updates and Everything that’s gonna happen and so on And and so When google does that kind of changes so Usually a very very gradual change that Takes years For it to really be something that Really makes an impact on rankings Because otherwise they would be Penalizing Sites that just didn’t even know that There was that update because they don’t Follow john mueller on twitter and Stuff like that you know and so i don’t Believe that google is gonna roll
Something Like that has a really strong ranking Signal On day one i think it’s it might be like The pop-ups it might be something that They’re increasing that Is very slowly turning the dial i think I think there’ll be a lot of nuance to It like A big part of core web vitals is The way the page loads and then if like After a second it pushes the content Down So like you can’t close the pop-up but You end up opting in because you tick The box and things like that it’s Probably going to be a bigger issue So but if you’re running like normal Things i don’t see it being a huge issue Either You know what i think as well i think That cdn providers and You know page speed service providers Like nitro pack etc will Essentially roll the core vitals into Their service because they essentially Load A lot of your elements through their own Cdn they would be able to impact The way your page loads and so they Would be able to impact that score of Co-work vitals and to be frank I haven’t even worked on it at all on Our sites because
I believe that by the time this is going To become an actual factor we should Care about and worry about There will be essentially software Services where you just click on the Button And we’ll just optimize it for you the Same way for example page speed can be Done these days with Uh like the cloudflare services with Nitro pack with all these things And so we can just go back and focus on Content and links and all the stuff that Requires manual work and like let the Software companies handle the tech and Just give them some money every month For them to handle that pretty much Um i very much believe that’s going to Be i’m not saying that on the day when The update Rolls out this is going to happen don’t Come to me from there when there’s no Cdn company that offers that I’m saying by the time these kind of Factor becomes relevant i think there Will be You know services in the box because There is a market right people will be Willing to pay for that so that they Match with What google wants and a company that Offers a cdn that optimizes your core Web vitals Will sell a lot of cdn plans you know
And so that’s why i think it’s going to Happen but to go back to Uh opt-in types let’s talk about Actually different types of opt-in that You can put On your site uh you know what go for it You’ve got your Your standard pop-up and we’ll talk About the different ways these can be be Triggered but the box in the middle of The screen with some Some information and some form fields on It A different type of pop-up which we’ve Used very very Well uh and we tested this quite a lot And this was the most Most effective kind was a welcome mat Which basically covers the entire Screen when someone lands on a page so Actually actually i disagree this is not The most effective 100 so there’s a Difference between A welcome mat which is essentially like A A piece of content that’s loading above Your page and then you As you scroll down it’s as if the rest Of the page came up And a takeover pop-up that essentially Takes over your screen and you need to Close it To access the content that’s behind it Right the takeover pop-up has a higher
Opt-in rate but it’s also more Aggressive and increases your bounce Rate a lot whereas the Because the welcome mat is a bit nicer Because you just get to scroll to Get to the content i prefer the balance Of like user friendliness against opt-in Rate for this because it’s not that much Lower than the takeover power but Actually the Full screen takeover pop-up is actually The highest option right oh i I thought they were both called welcome Mats i didn’t realize they were not Taking the welcome knight is a different Take for the scrolling yeah Fine um so those are the two i mean General kinds of Pop-ups you’ll have uh you also have Like a hello bar Uh you’ll often see this it’s like a Long stripe at either the top or the Bottom of a website Uh that says you know some kind of offer Is going on or Often you’ll you’ll see that it’s Targeted specific To users coming from facebook or coming From another website Or coming from a specific affiliate uh I’ve seen people set them up with it’s Pretty cool but It’s people tend to ignore them and There’s a bit of ad it’s like pop-ups
You know yeah they’re not that effective But they’re also far far less intrusive Uh so Something to to consider as well i think It’s part of a balance right it’s like For example you can use the hello bar With an exit pop-up it’s quite nice for Example So if you don’t want like an on-page Plus an exit pop-up for example Then you put like a hello bar plus an Exit bar and You need to mix these things together Pretty much also if you have some kind Of offer going on on your site it’s Quite good to just stick up a um A welcome sorry a hello bar with that It’s very they’re very Easy very fast to create you don’t need To do much visual Work with it so you know we do that for Some of our launches I think as well yep uh so then you have A giveaways Uh which we’ve talked about before in The the podcast a long long Time ago um i won’t get going to too Much because i don’t think it’s a great Place to start for Affiliate sites and i’m honestly i’m Questioning the Quality of the traffic of the leads that Uh Giveaways generics a lot of people put
Fake emails in and Uh they’re just not really interested in What you are Or your business are doing they just Want to win the prize uh So yeah that’s that’s a good way To sing a lot list i was going to say You get a lot of people and Yeah the thing is like you get a lot of People And for a lot of people it’s enough to Motivate them to actually take email Marketing seriously So if you’re happy to like just email 100 people that opted into your list Sure like the pop-up like because at the Beginning you won’t get a lot sure the Pop-up is is much better quality leads Um but if you feel like you need like 2 000 people to start emailing people Because otherwise it’s not worth it for You Then a giveaway is a good way to get These quickly actually so But they’re much lower quality i agree It’s it depends what you want Also it depends how you monetize your Email list and we’ll talk about this Next week because Sure if you’re trying to sell your own Products for example giveaways You can question it because uh people Might not be interested in your product They’re just interested in getting the
Price But if you’re selling email advertising For them if you’re selling exposure to Your email list Then usually you get paid by the number Of opens or number of clicks And that might be a good idea to run Giveaways to pump your list up and have A lot of people And charge more for your advertising you Know Sure yeah depends so Uh another another type is a content Upgrade So this is when you have a imagine you Had a list post like seven things about Whatever something uh and then you said Well do You want to get two more things from This list well Join the or sign up and and get them um Often you might see on some sites where It’s kind of uh Grayed out or it’s kind of blurred out And you can kind of see it and then you Have to enter your email to unlock Uh the the content it’s been i’d say it Hasn’t been so popular lately i haven’t Seen it that often like three or four Years ago It was a lot of people were were doing It yeah you’re nice Six seven yes yeah it’s it’s a bit of a Pain in the ass to like you know do
Especially if you’re like updating Content you have to like think of Updating the content upgrades and Generally you create one content upgrade Only for one post So you end up unless you you think it Through from the start you end up Doing quite a bit more work to to create All this content versus a pop-up you Know just create one and you put it Across your whole site You do that in you know half an hour or Something Yeah i still certainly was it for like Your highest traffic post usually like Usually i like I like the idea of having these on like My top 10 posts or something yeah And and maybe just reusing those i’ve Made on You know my top 50 pages let’s say like I don’t make new ones i don’t take the Resources to build new ones but If something kind of matches but not Exactly then just put it on the rest Um and then if the good good opt-in rate You can brainstorm content based on These topics so that you can put these Existing ones and you don’t have to make Another one you know Yeah and another kind is a standard Opt-in box I don’t even know what you call this but It’s like a pop-up except it’s just
There fixed somewhere in your in your Site and think of all these like Software tools where You know like sign up for a free trial Uh and you enter your name and your Email list At the top just it’s it’s there we have It on Uh authorityhacker.com if you scroll to Bottom Past the related videos related articles Section i think there’s a fixed thing There promoting it’s a two step one Webinar it’s like you need to click a Button to trigger a pop-up that then Triggers your email so we’ll talk about One step versus two-step as well we’ve Done a lot of A b testing on these uh but yeah The they work especially like bottom of First type like you know but At the end of the page like if you have No call to action you might as well put That before your footer for example That’s what we do On our site designs when we collect Emails it’s not going to be your best Opt-in But it’s also really costing nothing Because at this point people are just Going to kick back Otherwise and especially if you’re not Running any kind of ads or whatever on On your site it’s
It’s fine to to put something like that In there as well But let’s move on let’s talk about Triggers shall we Yeah okay um so the triggers are Definitely just I mean they’re mostly for pop-ups like We’re gonna we’re going back pop-ups But we’re going to talk mostly about Pop-ups in these podcasts because They’re going to be your main way to Collect emails to be frank So it makes sense which we dedicate more Time to them there’s a few ways to Trigger your pups First or more first one i mentioned was On page load so as soon as the page Loads Uh you load the pop-up it is aggressive But it’s also by far The best opt-in rate usually and trigger Is very important for opt-in right by The way like you can trigger the same Pop-up You know like i think i did the test a Long time ago i did a there’s a blog Post on a sorry hacker about this but Essentially You know like if i get 10 if i was Getting like 10 Or whatever on page load if i triggered It after 30 seconds that Would only get like three percent for Example so that gives you an idea and so
Yeah you can delay your pop-ups And amount of seconds but you can also Delay your pop-ups To a percentage of page scroll so if People scroll 20 30 whatever you can trigger this um And yeah so you can do these two types Of delay you can also do exit intent So exit intent is interesting it is Initially A desktop technology that would only Because they would use your mouse Movement and then whenever your mouse Would get to the address bar or just to The top part of your browser Then that’s when they’ll pop up triggers It’s very popular because Essentially it’s less aggressive you Consume the content as much as you want And then when you show that you’re about To leave it just Starts showing the offer the opt-in rate Is all right Um for us it’s about like from those Types we have recently is about half Of what we get from on page load so that Puts it there uh but now it works on Mobile actually um Optinmonster essentially made an exit Intent for mobile It’s not perfect it’s um it’s basically When you’re scrolling down the page and Then when you start scrolling back up Looking for the navigation of the
Address bar you know how the address bar Disappears on mobile when you scroll Down but when you scroll back up It shows up again they essentially Trigger the pop-up at that point on Mobile Um but the thing is if you’re on an Iphone for example you have these back Buttons for example Uh or even on android you have it on top But on iphone you have it at the bottom And so you could be clicking this back Button without triggering the pop-up Which means that this exit intent on Mobile is Not my favorite to be honest usually What i do is The exit popup that i have on desktop I put it on like a 30 second trigger or Something like this On mobile or something like a long one Basically so it’s like if i If i have usually i run Like for the most aggressive options When email is my main Goal on the site i put on-page load and I protect this intent that’s basically i Run two pop-ups And i run very often two different Offers or two different angles So that it’s not like just the same Thing popping up twice but rather Something a little bit new So if they didn’t take the first one
They might take the second one uh and on Mobile I it depends actually on mobile depends Often i do the i replace the pop-up with A hello bar the on-page would pop up With a hello bar Um and then i might put a 30-second Trigger for the exit power pretty much So i would have a hello bar and an end Of 30 second trigger on mobile or Something So it depends on on what works for you But i prefer that there’s actually a new Trigger as well that elementor has added Recently Which is the inactivity trigger so if People like stop interacting with your Page for x Seconds then it triggers the pop-up as Well so if you change tab and you come Back then you might find a pop-up that Wasn’t here something like this This is going to be low opt-in rate Probably um The best usually is the more aggressive You go the better it works right it’s Like I did that presentation on evergreen Funnels when i went to uh Dcbkk and i was telling like The cheesiest you are and the more in Your face you are with your offer the Better it works And i haven’t been proven wrong even if
It just pisses a lot of people off So far so i’m waiting to see that Now in terms of tools what we recommend For you to run these things there’s Basically three that we would recommend Uh i know a lot of people don’t like Them anymore but thrive lead is still Really quite competitive in terms of the Of the opt-in space much more than they Are in the page builder space I see you’re saying no with your head i Was just shaking i was just shaking my Head i was I wasn’t wow wasn’t a freudian freudian Slip All right well i think i think they’re More competitive on the opt-in space Than they are on the page builder space Drive Um and yeah what’s nice with them is That they Uh don’t charge you per impression the Other tools tend to now charge you like You know when you have a hundred Thousand impression two hundred thousand Impressions It gets quite expensive if you have a Lot of traffic whereas privacy you buy The plugin once and if you’re on the Updates you pay early but it’s like 67 Bucks It’s very cheap compared to the Competition so if you want to start it’s Quite good the a b testing is quite good
The database Stuff with all your leads it’s very hard To open when it gets big and you can get You can up your site a bit when you Get big but To start i think is the best the best Priced solution that is the most robust And i would recommend it after that There’s two tools that i would recommend You look at uh we use optinmonster on Our sites We kind of have uh you know recently What other monster did people Buy a lifetime like four or five years Ago like they were selling lifetime Plans And they just kicked everyone out of Their lifetime and like sorry your Lifetime is expired You have to pay monthly or yearly now so A lot of people are pissed off adapting Monster and i understand with what they Did I’m not trying to defend them but as a Tool like if i don’t think about their Company policies They do a pretty good job it’s quite Solid it’s quite reliable they have a Good integration with google analytics That’s quite interesting if you do more Tracking Um the builder is average it’s less nice Than stride leads Um and then the other alternative that
Actually has a one-off Price as well but you need to find a Link we’ll try to put it in the podcast Below actually Uh is convert box convert boxes from the Same guys who made thrive card which is Also the checkout solution that we use So if you buy a cost from ours you’ve Seen strike cut for example no Relationship to thrive leads by the way Totally sounds yeah it’s weird it’s Weird but yeah it’s a it’s another Company And so i like it i think it’s a it it Has less options But it’s it’s kind of like thrift card It’s you don’t have all the options you Want but everything it does it does in a Solid way And you can buy it as a one-off and you Can do a b testing with all these tools By the way Uh which is going to be quite important And we’re gonna talk about this Later uh that’s all the tools i had for This uh do you want to talk about Mobile and tablets uh yeah i mean the Only thing i really want to say here is That you You have to take a toll separate Approach when you’re Making pop-ups for for each platform for Mobile and for desktop Not just because of the the targeting
And like the I know up to monsters intent but in the Days when that wasn’t a possibility On mobile but just the size of Everything the layout Uh how people are going to interact with It so all i wanted to say is like Do this separately and don’t don’t yeah Desktop I know when people building sites Sometimes people are like uh build a Desktop site or build Mobile first and then whatever happens With the other one Happens kind of thing but that that Ain’t gonna fly with uh with pop-ups Yeah um we tend to run a different one Completely in general just Much simpler design has worked better For us like the opt-in pop-up on mobile And toy hacker is really high optimized Right Now like we like it’s like five percent Something which is pretty good for Site-wide pop-up that’s not Category targeted et cetera there’s no Images on it right There’s zero there’s just like a Headline like three bullet points and Just an opt-in field you know And then um now it works really well so The simpler the better mobile because Maybe you have like a modern phone that Has like high resolution screen where
You can display a lot of things etc But a lot of people are still on like 720p phones with like Low-rise screens they can’t display even All the stuff you’re putting they if you Need to scroll the pop-up to read the Content it’s already a problem Um so usually the simpler the better for The mobile pop-ups and I would recommend you just run a Different one and all the tools that we Mentioned they can they allow you to Target you know mobile or desktop tablet Etc So make use of these now let’s talk About what to sell on your pop-up and Pop-up angles in general right so There’s one angle that we mentioned That’s not about collecting emails so I’m just gonna mention it because it’s Also pop-ups and it’s Linked to this it’s just the pure Affiliate where you just you build a Pop-up that’s just a button a call to Action to an affiliate offer So the example i gave is like you find Like one thing that we have on one of Our sites is we have The discount section of an affiliate Store that we’re promoting you know they Run Daily discounts that rotate every 24 Hours And between 10 and 40 percent off and
The product just says Grab you know save 10 to 40 on these Items Click here to check the discounts and Then if people click it’s our affiliate Link And we get paid and i put a little timer That just expires at midnight and Restarts because They refresh their sales every 24 hours So it kind of makes sense anyway So that’s like the pure affiliate i Don’t give a about Collecting emails which i think a lot of People will still Identify with that listen to this Podcast now one thing that i like if you Want to start collecting emails but You’re doing this is you can make a Hybrid method Um you know how you go how when you go On e-commerce stores They don’t just run a call-to-action Pop-up very often they’re like Put your email to get five percent Discount or ten percent discount and Then you give them your email and then They just email you a coupon you know Um you can do the same with your Affiliate site you can say Save 10 to 40 on these items enter your Email And we’ll send you to the discount and What you do is like people put the email
So it goes into your Crm or whatever email tool you’re using And we’ll talk about email tools in the Other podcast by the way Um and then after that you can decide Where you redirect people after they opt In right you have a success url Uh filled when you build a popup and That success url you put an affiliate Link And where especially if you put an Effort into like that discount section On that shop what happened is You collected their email so you have Them you can contact them again And now you send them to your affiliate The same way you did with your call to Action popup except now you can contact Them again And make some follow-up emails to Promote Usually the same offer because people Show the interest in this by opting in So it’s better to have you know two to Three follow-up emails on that offer That’s what i would recommend to do or You will get less clicks Obviously if it’s just a button to click People will click more but you will Build an email list at the same time so It’s kind of like Rebalancing and the follow-up emails Might make up for The lower amount of clicks because
You’ll make a bit less money as well so That’s the hybrid The hybrid pop-up when you start being An affiliate but you want to start Building emails Then there’s the classic promote your Lead magnet so like you know five ways To lose weight 10 ways to jump higher whatever it is That you’re promoting on your site This is actually an issue you know like For the basketball jumping jumping Higher Fair enough something higher yeah for The best basketball volleyball etc um There are Full info products on how to jump higher Actually With workouts and everything um so not a Joke Um and then there’s another thing that i Don’t like that much but it’s quite Popular i think neil patel runs it is The gamified wheel Um well essentially it’s like uh i’ll Have a chance to Win something or sometimes e-commerce Stores they say have a chance to get a 50 Off coupon or something like this join In and essentially it’s kind of like a Giveaway but Run automatically by your software so Not all tools can do it but
Something like optinmonster can do it For example and they have the option so You can do like a spin the wheel type Thing yes You know they have this i’m sure people Have seen that you know they have this Kind of like half wheel into Illustration And like are they are they legit like is Someone actually going to win 50 Off or do they all just land on the same Number i mean i guess it depends how you Set it up right Like i i’m sure opting monster did not i Haven’t used it I don’t like this angle i much prefer uh I don’t because again it’s kind of a Giveaway angle people are not that Interested Um i much prefer i mean yeah i don’t Think austin monster built that Without giving you an opportunity to Make it legit i don’t think they would Do that So i think you can make it legit i think You can make it Also illegitimate you know yeah and just Be like you lost but like If you already lost like what is your Attitude towards a brand where you just Opted in And you’re like just like you Don’t care i think in general it’s of What was if it’s gonna
Run a discount or something and like People are signing up to get a discount It’s like are those really like the best Types of people you want to If you sign up for discount is different If you sign up for discount is different Because You’re expressing commercial intent when You sign up for a discount so I think it’s a good thing um but like For the chance of winning something is a Bit different because you’re looking for Free stuff And then it’s like you’re much less Interesting lead from a commercial point Of view Yeah um so yeah i wanted to talk about One step versus two steps pop-ups as Well So one step is when you know you should Pop up and there’s just the field where You Put your email and you press the submit Button right and then The two steps is basically when you say Hey do you want to lose 10 pounds Yes no and then you click yes it’s like Click here to download my 26 recipes to Lose 10 pounds you know something And so that’s the second step that pops After you click on the yes button Um i think for a while yeah the idea the Psychology behind this is they’re Getting the yes yeah
Yeah if people say yes to to one thing They’re more likely to Keep going and say yes to the next thing So it Supposedly increased the opt-in rate it Did for a while right so for like Several years We like again it’s like when we started Testing with that it was a long time ago It was like five six years ago And two steps was really like 20 to 30 More efficient than one step Um but actually the habits of the Internet have changed and i re-tested it Like two years ago and then that the Opposite happened like one step Bit two-step by quite a bit actually Just going straight up to the uh So they just opt-in and that’s it was Doing better mostly i guess because this Two-step was so powerful that A lot of people started using it so People getting you know got used to this And then one step started beating it and You know option rates decreased during That time as well As i mentioned so it’s like i think yeah I think there was just an erosion Of like people opting into these things And then two-step maybe got even more Erosion than one step But overall um overall one of these Things you want to test it’s one of These a b tests you want to run when you
Do a b testing and we’ll talk about this In a second but one step is fine and You will read old blog posts that say Two steps so much better it was the case Um but like even it’s funny because i Talked with the guys from private teams As well and they did the same test On their popups and they got the exact Same results like exactly the same And 100 agree they were like yep that’s One of our most important tests So uh yeah one step is fine and Don’t worry too much about it don’t make Something too complicated to get started At least And test it later uh do you want to talk About fields Yeah so the standard the simplest Version here is you just have an email Opt-in And then people enter the email and Click a button and and that’s them Signed into the list Um they’ll get the lead magnet stuff Obviously a lot of people put a second Field they put name And the thinking there is that that Allows people to that allows the Website to personalize the emails and Say hi mark or hi gail at the start of The The email uh rather than just hi there And it’s been proven Pretty conclusively that if you
Personalize an email like that people Are more likely to buy People are more likely to engage with Your list now the flip side of that is That people are actually less likely to Join the list because there’s an extra Field and i know It seems like such a crazy thing it’s Like well if you want that lead back That um What typing typing your name you know Mark it’s not exactly difficult But i don’t know it just it gets less Opt-ins Yeah we got like 10 to 15 percent less Options when we put the name You could argue that those 10 to 15 People were maybe not that serious about It and They were more just kind of browsing Rather than like oh i’m really Interested in this So i don’t know this is something i Think would need to be Tested a little bit more if you have Like a long funnel and proper analytics And all that kind of stuff We’re building that now actually we Don’t have that all up yeah we don’t Have All the that tracking through to the Actual purchase and all that set up Fully yet uh we are building it so we’ll Be able to give you more data on that
Once Once it’s up but yeah yeah what do you Say 10 to 15 Fewer opt-ins when you have name it’s Been a while we tested as well right so It’s like again it’s Like if i run the test today it might be Quite different numbers but yeah it was I can’t remember exactly i think yeah It was like significant but also not Crazy you know Yeah um so but like yeah it’s you still Lose some people so i tend to prefer Making As low barrier to entry and talking About barrier to entry let’s talk about Single versus double opt-in So what is double opt-in double opt-in Is when you opt into an email list And essentially they like check your Inbox and click on the link on the email We just sent you to confirm your email Address you click You get on thank you page like thank you You’re on the list now and what it does Is it makes sure that The email address that you opted in with Exists and so It makes a higher quality email list for The sender and make sure you receive the Emails on your app right Um the thing is like you really lose a Lot of people on double up team like This was like 30
Plus when we tested it as well this was A lot of people Uh it doesn’t mean that these people are Not people who would buy your products It doesn’t mean anything like that It just means that they can’t be Bothered or they’re Like you know they ought to let’s say They won their mobile they’re kidding The bus The bus arrived uh and then they just Didn’t have time to go in the email then The email got buried and it’s like see You later you know I i mean we we check our emails all the Time or at least i do i know you never But Most people who are listening to this Watching this work on a website Uh they’re working a lot with their own Email inbox and Most likely if they get if you send them An email they’ll get any They’ll be checking it really quickly Right But the vast majority of the general Public don’t check their email all the Time they don’t have their G suite tab opened in uh you know a Pinned tab on chrome Uh and are answering and have desktop Notifications set up and they maybe Check it like Once a day or you know sometimes even
Less than that so There is a real real drop-off right There yeah Um so i recommend to not use it and the Thing is like some Email tools will force you to use it i Can’t i’m not sure merch is aweber I can’t remember which ones like i Haven’t used much house than active Campaign for many years at this point so Um active campaign doesn’t force you to Do that but some tools will Um and my preferred way of doing this Is to keep everyone in the email list Not double locked in But then we have an automation that Checks if people have opened an email in The last 60 days when they opt in And if they did not you know we have an Autoresponder that sends them like an Email a week or something And if they didn’t touch anything in 60 Days they just get Plain unsubscribed you know and so we Remove the inactive Emails and the shitty ones by just Testing for their engagement Through sending them content rather than Having that specific step where they do That It means that you get some junk emails For the first 60 days But over time especially as your list Gets bigger and you have many more
People that you email etc It’s such a small percentage that it’s Not going to affect things like Deliverability etc And and i wouldn’t worry too much about It Uh yeah so it’s just a engagement uh Checking sequence that then unsubscribes People is better than double opt-in But the reason why email providers make You do Double opt-in is because for them it’s Better that you double opt-in so that They have like a cleaner reputation And their overall service has better Data ability so they kind of force Their customers to do that but for your Own interest it’s not the best actually Um So that that’s an opinion people might Have other ones but i’m curious to hear If people have an opinion just drop a Comment on youtube I’m curious about that let’s talk about A b testing Most of the tools i mean all the tools i Mentioned offer a b testing if you do Pop-ups on like elementor for example That has a pop-up tool There’s no a b testing there’s no Analytics etc which is why i did not Recommend it in the tools list Uh it’s really worth doing we have done Some a b test that increased our opt-in
By 70 And the thing is like a b testing with Pop-up is easy Unlike you know a b testing uh you know Page to sell affiliate products etc or You need to check The tracking on the affiliate product Against the change of layout on your Page This is all integrated right this tool Counts these tools count like how many People Saw the pop-up how many people opted in And then they just do all the a b test It’s very very simple to do So it’s worth doing um i’m going to give You another of things to test so the First thing that i would test is the Trigger It’s funny but like as i said the same Pop-up triggered differently could Get three times less opt-ins so i tend To test the trigger first Like you know you could test on-page Load two seconds five seconds ten Seconds exiting ten for example And then see what happens uh the Headline The headline is one of the biggest ones Uh it’s funny because the copy It’s the copy of the pop-up is actually The last on my list but like I’m probably gonna at some point do a Test where i put some laura meepsom in
The copy to just show how little it Matters Uh it’s just people just read the Headline usually and they just decide to Opt in or not So abby takes the headline after the Trigger the cta on the bottom And the design and then the copy that’s How it works for me And i have found very little effect of Changing the walls i put in the actual Like bullet points or something like This Uh people don’t really read this too Much they became about what it looks Like When it triggers and what the headline Promises and that’s how they look Where does the color of the button fit Into this Uh i mean button cta for me was more Text you know so i like to Put the benefits in my cta so rather Than like sign up I’d be like get get your recipes now or Something like this like um i’ll like Uh start losing weight today or so you Know what i mean like i put like a Benefit because then people are like If i click on that button i’m gonna Start losing weight it’s not true but Like There’s that that like diesel brain or Something that just thinks that you know
And uh and that was a joke by the way i Remember like Back in the early days when we first Started doing uh opt-in Opt-in pop-ups we were like testing the Button color and stuff like that as one Of the first things like Yeah it doesn’t matter uh results Yeah it doesn’t matter that much but Like the the text matters actually the Text you have on the button And the kind of like emotional response It creates Uh does matter it’s not like you’re not Gonna double your opt-in rate with a Better text but you You know you could get a 10-15 increase With the right text and so it’s one of The tests that’s definitely worth Running actually Um so yeah a b testing just check The help files of the tool you’re going To pick they’re all different But even striatus has pretty robust a b Testing despite that it’s a one of cost So i recommend i recommend you do it And really you will start seeing the Benefits after a few a b tests of the Opt-in pop-ups like Your first probe is not it’s gonna be Okay but not great But after you’ve done two three tests You will start getting proper opt-in Rates
Especially if you test testing that Order and then that’s when you can stop Doing some damage basically Um so finally we want to talk about the The thank you page so that’s after Someone’s opted in Where do you direct them to uh Back in the day a lot of people would Just deliver the lead magnet There on the on the thank you page uh But Virtually all of these pop-up software Uh allow you to redirect people Elsewhere so the idea is that you Get people to opt in they opt in and Then You land on some kind of page where it Says okay we’ll email this to you in the Next Five minutes 10 minutes so they know It’s coming but then you Present them with some kind of Commercial offer if you have your own Product it could be Something for you know where you’re Selling your own product discount or Something But and this is what’s really good if You’re an affiliate site You can put links to affiliate offers on There And because you have people very Interested in this stuff you can get You know a lot of people clicking on
These these links and and make some Sales we did that on Health emission um and yeah it worked Really well actually Yeah yeah yeah it works it looks okay Uh and on top of that you can follow up With people on like more offers et Cetera so it’s like Don’t just like be get hang up on the Money you make from this because you’re Gonna make money from email on top of That so it’s kind of like a one-two Combo that works Uh pretty well uh you can also That’s when you can like start trying to Sell your own products as well that’s How we grew at our ihaka remember Um we uh we had an Opt-in we had lead magnets and we had an Opt-in and On the thank you page i made like a Really basic sales page for a 29 dollar Product called Uh october was it no no no double Julie’s was there Optimum pop-up mastery actually exactly Yeah actually because We’re going back to the origin yeah full Circle Um and uh it was showing people like a Lot of these tricks that i mentioned now We’ll just give it for free But um yeah so that it was 29 bucks so You’re welcome for that podcast by the
Way um but It’s like um we sold quite a bit and Then from that that worked well then i Built a three hundred dollar upsell that Was called wle’s that was like all the Other email stuff That we had and then uh that worked Really well as well and it’s like we’re Like oh like we’re doing quite well And then that’s what triggered auto Hacker pro and that’s what triggered Pretty much everything you know today From atari haka so Um you can see how this initial thing That really wasn’t much i built a twit It was five videos obtained by my Stories like it was Nothing i mean it was it was good for Where it was but it was not that much Work Um to do and it worked it’s what Triggered what atari hacker is today if I didn’t do That little funnel at the beginning we Probably wouldn’t have made um Like all the trainings we’ve done today And like have that many students and so On and so I think it’s a good case study of like What These small things can eventually Trigger once you get kind of like a Chain of success and something works and Then you optimize it and something works
And you optimize it and so on Um so it’s a if you’re interested in Info products all these In selling info products all these stuff That we’ve mentioned today You can do it for that or you can do it With affiliate and in the podcast where We talk about monetizing an email list We’ll talk about You know affiliate and also making your Own products or you can start with Affiliates and then transition to your Own products which is also what we did On a toy hacker for example Um so yeah it’s a you can your thank you Page is your most important page as they Say and it’s really true It’s you know if you’ve put a sales page Out to sell something Just publicly and you’ve made no sell Very often putting that same sales page On your thank you page will actually Start generating some sales and Uh yield a lot of results is Counter-intuitive to put a barrier to Get to your sales page But from experience it works really well Actually so Um yeah that’s all i had to say on on Pop-ups and this lead generation et Cetera any final walls of wisdom No i think that’s been pretty exhaustive I i don’t know what that word is but i Agree
But uh thank you for joining guys if you Enjoy this kind of podcast if you want Us to talk more about like Funnels lead generation email marketing Etc drop us a comment below because We tend to stick to seo because when we Look at the stats people tend to prefer Listening to seo stuff but we know a lot About funnels and And all these things and email and Everything and we’re going to do that Other podcasts regardless of the stats Of this podcast but i’m Quite interested to hear if our audience Is ready to venture a little bit outside Of just affiliate seo Or if you want us to essentially stick To these effects seo topics Um if you enjoyed that you can also Obviously subscribe both on the audio Platforms for the podcast and on youtube You can drop us a thumb up as well Really helps And we will see you next week for Another episode bye [Music] You