Managing just a handful of writers Creating a few thousand words of content Per week Can be a handful but what if you had to Manage hundreds of writers creating Millions of words of content every Single week well that’s exactly what my Guest today does Vincent deletto runs word agents they’re One of the largest Content agencies out there and we’ve Been working with them for a number of Years now And today he’s going to be sharing all The juicy insights about how he runs his Business we’re going to find out how Much he pays for writers How many writers he works with how he Finds them how he keeps them And how he trains them so if you have a Website that you create content for And you have a team of writers that you Want to manage better Then pay attention because you’re going To learn a lot today [Music] Vin welcome to the authority hacker Podcast how you doing today Hey mark i’m doing great thanks for Having me buddy So i’m really excited to have you on Because we talked Last week about about this show and About this interview and
One thing that really surprised me like I had no idea how big your company is Uh so i’d like if that’s okay just to Give you a few quick fire questions so You can give our audience a a sense of The scale of your content operation Absolutely man hit me with them how many Writers do you have on your team At this moment at this moment i believe We have 234 Freelance writers on the word agents Team that isn’t that’s insane i think That’s the most i’ve ever heard anyone Have on On their team and how many words per Month would you say you You produce on average we do on average I would say between 4.5 and 5 million words produced for our Clients Every month um and that’s growing pretty Quickly month over month It’s also completely mind-blowing and I know you guys have been around for a Long time so and you may have to do some Math here but do you have any idea how Many words Of content you’ve produced in your in Since you’ve been going Well when we relaunched the website in April of 2020 Um we actually have the stack right in On the about section And we had it at 77 million words
Roundabouts Uh up until that point um but over the Last year i think It’s been our biggest year ever so uh I’d have to do the math on that but It’s it’s getting up there for sure like It’s just mind-blowing like these these Numbers and and that’s why i’m so Excited to To have you on today because i i want to Grill you on On how you run your business and how you Find so many writers and and Just get get all that done sometimes i Have Real problems getting that done for for One site so i can’t imagine how How you do it for for so many of your Your clients Uh so if we can if we can just break This down Um where let’s start with with finding Writers because i know that’s A problem which every site owner can Relate to And you seem to have solved because you Have so many Where do you find writers well it’s it’s Not solved yet it’s always a work in Progress because you know writer sources Change over time so those tried and true Sources that you know we relied on for Years and years Sometimes they draw dry up and you got
To go elsewhere Um but there’s always the the places That we all know Uh upwork uh problogger i would suggest Pro blogger featured at this point That the normal uh problogger ads just Aren’t as Effective as they once were you gotta Pay for that featured ad Craigslist job sites facebook groups Those i think is are where most uh Affiliate marketers go to find their Writers Um we’ve gotten a little creative and Kind of ventured outside And gone offline a little bit to find Writers We have agreements with colleges and Universities We go to local small business and career Center type things Probably everybody has like a business Center in their city or around their City That’s a great place to find people who Are talented and looking for work Um and we’re also touching um into Specialty groups like uh Veterans retirees single moms there’s All kinds of organizations that support These types of groups And lots of times uh they have some kind Of like job board or something like that Where you can actually uh
So you know source um writers from there And it’s also you know you’re being a Little socially conscious too by Supporting maybe an underserved Demographic interesting okay i see you Mentioned College students there um do you Physically go to Campuses and and attend careers fairs And Boots on the ground kind of mode or not Yet me It depends on how how tough it is for us To scale in the future Um but we started with the online Universities um There’s a good bit of alignment there Because they try to place Their students um into digital jobs just Because everything’s online Um so we just hit up the career center Or The counselors or what whatever they Call it at each individual university Um the organization that helps students Uh get placed at work And we just tell them what the deal is And and you know give them a flat offer And We ask for their english students and And their honor students because Um there’s a lot there’s there’s Something to be said about life Experience with college students so
We find that the honors students and the Ones that are Majoring in english um you know have the Best success rate uh with word agents Okay and are you looking for students Who are still studying at this At this point in time or is it is it Graduates who this Goes on to be become like their there’s A full-time job it’s usually Uh seniors um so we usually touch base With the colleges and universities Towards uh the End of springs because uh that spring Semester is just ending so we’re trying To grab the seniors on their way out They’re looking for summer jobs they’re Looking for their first uh You know foray in the uh in the Workplace and uh it works out Okay uh and do you tend to look for Generalist writers i someone who can Research and write about Anything or do you focus on people who Have specific experiences with Certain niches for example yes and That’s probably a topic that i can talk About for an entire podcast but um At word agents we only work with Generalist writers uh and we do our best To train them up to To research and basically speak Intelligently on any topic Um we’ve tested building teams of
Subject matter experts and There’s a lot of pitfalls you gotta you Gotta look out for And i think that’s very viable for a Small team but once you get to the size Of ward agents Uh you know trying to get you know 200 Subject matter experts in different Verticals is a really tough nut to crack So how do you i mean sort of going off The hiring Path a little bit here about how do you Get someone who’s Not a topic expert to be able to write Confidently about A topic then how do you teach them to do That So we have some very very detailed uh Operating procedures related to internet Research So we teach all of our writers about you Know google special operators Um you know the differences between an Authority site a primary source of data Um and and basically just research Tactics like that Um which which does a lot of the legwork For us you know just going to a primary Source of data Allows a writer to speak um more Intelligently than if they’re going Through To a new site that’s kind of like you Know cycling through that information
And not Necessarily providing an accurate answer Um But yeah just through internet research And the way we teach our writers to do That Uh you know more often than that we we Hit the nail on the head Interesting okay uh you know with that Said you know We uh we also always tell clients that If it’s a professional service or if There’s A if it’s a topic that would require a Four-year degree Um to speak intelligently about you know That’s that’s just not the right fit for Us Um and that’s you know for a smaller Team again i’m talking through the Perspective of running word agents but If You just need a few writers to support Your blog you could totally find a Subject matter expert All you got to do is go on upwork They’re all hanging out right there And you can you know source three four Five subject Experts that you can use you know Consistently over time for your blog They’re just going to be a few Percentage points hot and more more Costly
Than a generalist uh mainly because they Have that experience behind them So would you say that the training Training someone to research Well essentially enables them to to Write about anything or almost anything Yes i would take a content marketer that That Knows how to research and write well Over a subject matter expert And if if the topic required subject Matter expertise I would simply hire somebody with Expertise to review the article And and sign off on the data that’s an Interesting approach actually because I know from personal experience it can Be really challenging Especially in certain niches to find Subject Matter experts so that may be an Interesting approach i’ve always tended To shy away from hiring Generalist writers in in the past but Thinking about it and thinking about how I create content Like a lot of the the value i guess is Is created in the research phase and Ensuring that that’s done properly is is Super important uh Okay just go back to your actual hiring Process then Sure um what does it look like you know Someone sends in an application
What what happens next how are you Screening for Good writers what are you looking out For at that stage sure Um so really Aside from expertise we’re looking for Goal and Oriented punctual writers with excellent Spelling and grammar skills So they just need to be able to have a Really strong handle of the english Language Preferably fluent we at word agents we Only work with North american writers but i’m more Looking for the characteristics The um the character traits over the Skill sets If a writer is really or really Interested In helping you reach your goals rather Than just Checking boxes on a checklist that’s the Person i want to work with You know experience with internet Research content marketing and seo is a Plus But i’m not going to um turn a candidate Away if they don’t have that experience Because those those are things i can Train them up On but the core skill is like their Character traits or they’re really Interested in doing the job or just
Getting a paycheck you know that you Gotta weigh that Um and can they write well uh if they Check those boxes They they pass my first test and then we We go on with Uh you know the testing phase of Bringing new applicants down And what does that look like that do you Could you give them all a test article To To write then or sure yeah we we give Every single writer Um a test article and we use the same Brief For all applicants that way it makes The evaluation of those those test Articles much more easier for our Editors Um and also we don’t have to kind of Create a new brief for every new Applicant that comes in Uh but they get a test article um they Either passed or failed that The ones that pass it they go hand off They get handed off to our talent Manager at word agents Um and they do another test article with The talent manager so they both they Have to pass our evaluation team With the first test then they have to Pass with their talent manager And if they make that pass that second Test they go into a 90-day probation
Period And we’re specific in letting them know That they’re in probation because There’s a little bit of psychology there Uh That if a writer knows that they’re kind Of like under a magnifying glass They’re gonna do their you know put Their best foot foot forward for that Entire duration And really if riders are able to do that For 90 days straight And that’s that’s a lot of projects over Those 90 days we’re going to have a high Confidence that they’re going to be The right fit for our team for the long Term and is there anything When you’re evaluating a a test article Or something someone’s Submitted in their portfolio even as Part of the application Are there certain things you look for in Their writing at that stage or Certain certain things you you look to Avoid at that stage as well Right so we have a uh an evaluation Checklist Um and the the purpose of that is that We’re evaluating Candidates consistently and fairly so It’s not you know Across evaluators so it’s not one Evaluator has this opinion and another Has this opinion
We we use this checklist and then that’s It um that checklist is going to be Unique to your business you know the You know the items on our list are going To be different from yours just because Of Of what we’re doing uh it’s it’s Different um but for the most part you Know it’s things like Fluff are you looking for fluff writing Keyword stuffing How powerful is the intro does the intro You know keep you engaged and want you To To read more um how is their formatting Uh without any training like how do they Format and structure an article Without any you know previous uh Training from word agents Those are the type of things that we’re Looking for and of course we’re Evaluating it against our You know general quality assurance Process so everything’s going through Grammarly copyscape hemingway Editor for readability um and i think You know on our checklist we have about 22 Different uh items 22 different pieces Of criteria that we evaluate The document against okay uh And so let’s talk if we can about Editors because i I’m guessing you must have quite a few
Editors what what sort of ratio of Editors to To writers that you guys have we try to Keep a Um 1 to 10 ratio so one editor for Every 10 writers uh i believe we’re Above that Right now because what we’re doing is We’re We’re evaluating different pay Structures for editors so We’re definitely uh all you know over Our need for editors but that’s fine we Get things done faster that way Uh but for the most part editors we pay On an hourly basis Uh i definitely stress the hourly basis For editors Trying to track editors on a per award Basis uh actually adds an added cost For you know administration and just the Management of that And most editors in general are used to Being paid on an hourly basis so there’s Less friction when you’re onboarding Them and just trying to get them into Your organization Does a good writer can they also work as An editor or is there a different set of Skills that are Needed it just comes down to you set it Down to their Their character traits we we’ve Definitely um
We love to promote from within so There’s definitely been writers that Have become editors and even Some of those editors became our talent Manager and our director of content Operations Um but for the most part right now new Editors are all Are all coming from outside the Organization just because Of how much demand we we have on our Writers Uh we just have to look elsewhere Because we need the writers in the seats That they’re in Right now so do you have different Hiring processes did you look in Different places or is it the the same Um places you mentioned you look for Writers you look for Editors as well um upwork is very good For editors and job sites are in general Are very good for editors mainly because The price point uh that the That those editors expect on those job Sites are aligned with our budget Um whereas writers you kind of like you Have a big spectrum of expectations for Pay scale So we have to be specific about where we Go to find uh our writers Um another website that i really like For sourcing editors Is called freeup.net um it’s actually
Owned by The owner of the hof and it’s kind of It’s a job site but they have this This cool feature well there you tell Them what they’re looking for and They’ll actually go And find candidates for you and give you Like a top three to five Um list of who they think would be the Best fit For your for your role um and that’s Worked out very well for us Both for editors as well as um other Positions in the company outside of Production Like uh we had a data analyst from from Free up to Interesting uh and is that mostly like U.s based people or is it is it International Um it’s we were able to source us-based Editors Um but outside of that it’s it was Worldwide i think we have some in norway Some in bulgaria All over the world interesting i haven’t Heard of that one before i have to check It out actually Yeah so how do your Editors interact with your writers what Is that That day-to-day interaction and feedback Cycles uh Look like sure so we have a pretty
Robust Um back-end tech stack i guess you would Say at this point so everything is Becoming more and more automated uh but For the most part Editors are um our assignment we have an Assignment manager so the assignment Manager is the one doling out all the Work to various editors and writers And then it gets into production so the Writers will be Um the ones getting started on the work Um Editors will be there throughout the Entire process to Answer any questions about um client Instructions to clarify client Instructions Um and if they need to go back to the Client to to get further clarification Editors will do that um and other than That they’re just you know Answering general writer questions During the production of the first draft After that the writer will submit the Article to the editor At which point they’ll do their quality Assurance work they’ll do their Proofreading they’ll go you know push Everything through grammarly and Copyscape in our in our tool stack Um and the editor will make a judgment Call is this uh Draft you know need like five minutes or
Less of edits in that case the editor Will Will do the changes themselves if not They’ll Jot up some um some revision notes and Send the work back to the writer for a Revision With the expectation that the revision Is expected back within 24 hours Um then the editor will will do their Final Sign off before sending it to our Quality assurance team For a final final review before it gets Delivered to Uh the end user which is a client And do you do your editors sometimes Actually make the edits Uh if it’s just like little things here Or there do they always Push it back to the writer to get in Order to like For them to to learn what what they Should be doing like Our trigger point for that is really the Five minute rule Is this does this document need more or Less than five minutes of copy editing If it’s less than five minutes go ahead And do that maybe that’s like tweaks to The headers maybe it’s You know just you know separating um Text so there’s no blocks of text on the Screen
Just very small things like that but Anything more than that We send it back to the writers because We’re paying the writers To to make sure that that’s correct uh For our clients Yeah i’ve always struggled with with That like it was little mistakes like Do you push back on the do you have the Editor push back on the writer And like spend some time doing that in The hope that they fix it You know forever and future or is it Even worth it but i like that five Minute rule that’s a good uh Yeah i think a good number today and Just to add add context there We do have a quality assurance team Which are probably our most talented Editors And that is really like our last line of Defense If an editor isn’t confident that an Article is Delivery worthy they have the option of Sending it to that client uh that Quality assurance team That when we both have quality assurance Editors and writers And that’s just like you know special Ops they go in and they Look at where we’re at and they just Polish it up and get it ready for Delivery
Interesting yeah i’ve heard a lot of Larger organizations have That kind of role i’ve heard like chief Content quality officer and and Roles like this i i really think this is Something important Even if you’re not doing it at the scale Uh you guys are doing that having Someone whose ultimate responsibility Is for for quality across like a a whole Site Um it’s something i’ve i haven’t done Yet but it’s a role of kind of Thinking about like how how one could Adapt that to uh To a single site at the moment it’s Really needed for Um just so we can hit our guarantees Related to delivery dates you know We guarantee that we deliver up to 10 000 words every week So um if we’re sending stuff back Between editors and writers multiple Times You’re really eroding away at your Available time to meet your guarantee So we just opt to send it to a quality Assurance team who’s ready And willing to get this done as fast as Possible and they’re capable of Really putting out a good product so That’s probably the main reason we have That there just to keep the The entire workflow flowing on time
Let’s talk about uh rates for a second Like Both for editors and and for writers Because in my experience The numbers like that at least the the Amount the These people have been been asking for Seems to have been steadily going up in In recent years uh which is fine you Know with Inflation and all i’m just wondering What your take on on that is At your scale like how much are you Paying your your writers your editors Kind of on average yeah sure um it all Comes down to what you’re asking Of the role right so you have if you’re Gonna like slam a roll Uh and buy a roll i just mean like the Title the job title Uh with a ton of tasks you should expect To pay a bit more Um we’ve kind of you know it’s a it’s a Juggling act of You know balancing act to get those Tasks right to make sure that it’s It’s good for the rate we’re paying uh For writers we’re paid between two and Three cents per word We’re very transparent about that it’s It’s a flat rate we don’t do tears or Writers for different quality we always Try to put out the best quality possible Um and that’s why our hiring system is
So stringent Uh because we’re only going to let Writers in that are capable of putting Out the quality that we expect But we’re paying two to three cents for That But that’s only for production all Writers have to do or take the client Instructions Read them and write the article we’re Not asking them to do anything else Any other tasks related to creating the Article are elsewhere in the production System whether that be with the editors Or the quality assurance team editors Were paying on On an hourly basis um it’s kind of hard For me to say what rate we’re paying Editors because we look at All editors in total and look at that as As one budget But for the most part we’re able to Source editors anywhere between 14 and 20 dollars an hour okay Yeah that’s that’s uh i guess that’s Like i remember back in the day when i Was starting Doing authority sites like i remember That three cents a word Being kind of like the the average but It seems more and more these days that That that rate so Seems to be been been going up at least Well what it is
Um there’s a lot of websites out there That kind of like I would say they’re like freelance Writer support websites like how to You know build your business as a sole Proprietor and They they very much inject ideas into These writers heads about what they can Expect when it’s not really The truth you know everybody has a Different background everybody has a Different experience set And for the writers that we’re looking For you know recent college graduates Stay-at-home moms Right retirees professional freelancers Looking to fill holes in in in their Schedule Uh we’re we’re able to source plenty of Them at the rate we’re offering Great uh so how do you get your writers Up to speed with the way you they’re Supposed to be writing Content like when they when they start What training do you have on In place it also it all starts with The standard operating procedures um so We have So many uh you know our our our Documented systems are It’s almost a library at this point we Have different sops for You know workflows how to use our our Project management system
Uh research like i talked about before Uh Formatting and structure of articles on Page optimization Uh call to actions like you really had You know if a client wants a call to Action or is trying to drive Something to a specific link how to work That into the writing So we’re really developing the Documentation first Um and then we’re testing the the Writers just to get a feel for Their natural abilities uh and then the Real training starts within that 90-day Probation period Um the first two weeks we give the Writers time to internalize The documentation uh really you know two Weeks should be plenty Uh for the amount of documents that We’re giving to our writers for them to Be up to speed If they’re not up to speed after the First two weeks it requires Um a one-on-one meeting with the writer To really understand Uh you know where the knowledge gap is And try to close that And if not maybe a second guess of Whether or not if that right is the Right fit for the team Um after that two-week initial period They’re just in probation
Um and we just monitor them closely and And just reinforce Um our rules and expectations through That period Um and then our talent manager also uh Holds On gourd ongoing training in the form of Pre-recorded videos Um and that’s something that we’re Actually just um implementing now we’re Gonna do a one Once per month training one hour long uh Pre-recorded video And we just blast that out to the team Through our email mark what kind of Things are going to be Being in on those recorded videos any New tasks Any new changes to our existing um [Music] Sops and then really just Honing in on um common failures Like a lot of times like there’ll just Be one expectation that writers have Like a really hard time with So we’ll do an hour-long you know Session to really go through Like you know resolving that so it Becomes you know not so much uh Of a problem from a from a macro point Of view And you mentioned like the sops earlier What specifically would you be Like telling them within say your
Research sop or one of your other sops Like Give us some insight there sure um but In the research sop It’s we we try to make it as action Based as possible like i try to keep Every sop to about two pages Uh or or less anything more than that And it just becomes noise and it’s hard For For the writer to internalize um for the Research sop specifically Uh we’re talking about as as I may have alluded to before um you know The differences between primary and Secondary sources of information Um how do you properly use google google Advanced search operators to kind of Filter the results Down to really what’s important and the Most useful Um and then how to identify like an Authority based Based website where you can really trust The information and data that they’re Presenting Um you know compared to like a fan site And and It’s really all about how to suss out um The good stuff from the bad stuff And and really get to that as quickly as Possible So you’re essentially teaching them how To find the facts of
Whatever it is they’re writing about Versus the noise correct Absolutely correct that’s interesting And what about the the you said you had An sop on structuring content as well What is what does that look like So that’s all the stuff that we all know Is seos you know just Uh everything should be um structured With with Or broken up with headings and Subheadings and then if you want to do Nested subheadings within that keeping Headings short and sweet we don’t want Verbose headings that are wrapping to a Second line The same idea with paragraph structure Um Actually learned that from authority Hacker back in the day keep keep Paragraph short and sweet Keep paragraphs focused uh to a single Thought We instruct our writers to keep Paragraphs to three to five visual lines And that all that means is if you’re Going to count the lines on the screen It shouldn’t really be more than five Visual aligns um so those are the types Of instructions that we have in the Formatting document Yeah i like that avoiding the the wall Of text syndrome that you You see on a lot of kind of old school
Uh old school blog posts that’s that’s Really really important yeah and And really that that that that backs out For word agents If we’re able to structure our articles In a way that’s going to keep our Clients Visitors engaged that keeps that client Coming back to us Because you know they’re making money From that article Okay so how do you physically manage So much content i mean you do you have It all on google drive Somewhere do you have some numbering System for Every p like i just it boggles my mind Like how you you handle all this It took two years to get that organized Two two full years and a lot of trial And error Um it’s just down to our tech stack we Use activecampaign to Communicate with the writing team And we actually just onboarded the Entire team Into hr software we’re using bamboo hr And uh because we have so many bodies um A platform like that was really Necessary for communication Um then we have our project management Software we’re using service provider Pro Which was a project management system
That was As close as possible to our workflow Uh that we could find out of the box um We did some further customizations to That to really build an assembly line Um for our workflow in the back end Which really helped Management of all these orders but as Far as deliverables It’s just in google drive we have client Folders and then within client folders There’s project folders and Within the project folders there is the Actual documents So the client will get delivered the Actual project folder that includes all Their documents within the project And do you give each of your writers uh An at Word agent g suite or google Email account no that would be very very Expensive Um we just we give that to our higher Level management Um and do editors have them now no Editors don’t even have them now It’s just high level management Basically any any of our staff that will Have Uh would be client interfacing so do you Have like a google drive with like one One word agents content folder that that You own and you just invite The writers into the relevant relevant
Parts there We split it up um so we have it a Production side and deliver Side because we don’t want clients Clients will always have access to the Deliverability Deliverable side so we don’t want them Seeing uh articles that are in Production Um we did that for a while and i started Getting emails You know non-stop about clients making Critiques before the article was Delivered to them So we do everything in a production Folder first and then it gets moved over To the deliverable folder once it’s Ready for the client to see Interesting okay we came across a Problem really weird problem Uh recently where i think on google Drive You can’t change ownership of a of a File Like if it’s someone outside your Organization who created it so i i was Wondering We just resolved that you have to do That you have to set up groups in your In your g suite so you have to do a Writer group And then you can set the permission just To the writer group instead of the Individual article owner
So it’s really your g suite organization Owns the groups So it doesn’t matter if people go come You know it doesn’t matter who’s sitting In the seat Um it’s the group that owns it not the Individual Oh brilliant i love it so Tell me about your uh your tech stack as Well for uh The sort of tools i mean do you use Copyscape You mentioned uh um grammarly and some Other tools What are what are you using consistently There sure we we have We’re using all different types of Software just for the business in General but when it comes to content uh Production Uh everything sits on service provider Pro so that’s our Workflow to keep everything moving Moving nicely For most people operating websites and Teams for a specific website Service provider pro wouldn’t be an Option In that case i would suggest asana or Trello uh i think click up is a newer One that’s really good too Uh so i would suggest those uh for for Proofreading spelling grammar and just General
Um editing grammarly is great uh it Doesn’t get you 100 of the way there Uh at word agents our guarantee is to we Guarantee every article will reach a Score of 90 Or better on grammarly and then we have Manual checks after that Do you aim for a specific readability Score with it as well Like grade readability is a tough one Because Uh what what’s happening with Readability is We we we are testing that and we will do That for clients that ask for it But when you pass it through a Readability Uh tool and you kind of try to edit like That The article becomes very robotic and it Takes a lot more time to get Uh it flowing well in the readability Tool So that’s something that isn’t part of Our service guarantee as of yet but We’re working on working that into our Service guarantee But we just have to kind of overcome the Amount of time it takes to edit for Readability But i very much promote hemingway editor For readability It’s probably the standard i i would say At this point for for that so
Do you use both grammarly and hemingway Always or Hemingway only like when we have certain Clients that are really specific about Readability And we’ll use hemingway in that case but For the most part On the majority of orders it’s just Grammarly And then we use copyscape too uh to Check for Um you know duplicate content Yeah okay i would say that’s it and then Just you know if you have a really big Team I would so recommend uh An hr platform and for us since Everybody on our team is a contractor Uh we use bamboo hr so far it’s been Really nice and it’s great for Communication blasting out you know Uh communications and memos to the Entire team Really easily uh it also makes Onboarding Uh easy getting everybody to sign their Their contracts Um and submit all that kind of stuff too But i would say that’s it as far as tech Stack um project management system Grammarly copyscape hemingway editor And then an hr platform and Do you use uh so do you do any kind of On-page optimization like
Do you look at like including keywords Do you use tools like server seo or Anything similar Uh to to kind of add keywords to content There Sure so yeah so word agents is is an seo Company uh we specialize in seo Optimization at scale Um i have an internal best practices Guide for On-page optimization um that is actually Available for download on the word Agent’s website we give away for free Too So if you guys want to take a look at What we teach our writers you guys can Can visit us and download it but it’s You know we just we update that put a Link to that the the corner of the Youtube yeah i gotta get that for you For sure Um we we update our best practices i’d Say once per quarter So um it’s just all the standard stuff That we all know Uh keyword density um using keywords in The first and last paragraph try to use The secondary keywords and headings Wherever possible um A lot of the formatting stuff that we Talked about previously is also within Our on-page optimization guide Um outbound linking internal linking It’s a whole gamut of what’s necessary
To Optimize content to rank well for your Keyword Okay and i hear you’ve used some kind of Interesting Automation to help you Manage this this whole process like How do you use automation in your Business like do you do Simple zapier tasks or you know do you Use anything more more sort of complex Sure um to be honest my team is just uh At this point they do automations that i Don’t even know that it’s going on right Now It’s awesome as you kind of grow like You have teammates that just do this Stuff for you But the biggest one we did is we created An app That sits on top of service provider pro As i said before service provider pro Was really close to our workflow but it Wasn’t perfect And and one of the drawbacks was um the Assignments Uh you know we have hundreds upon Hundreds of new orders every week And we were manually assigning that to Editors and and writers For every article so we’ve been built an App That sits on top of service provider pro That uh
Allows that to be automated it allows The writers to claim Articles at their leisure rather than Waiting for our team to assign an Article to them So that actually sped up our entire Process significantly And they cut down on costs because uh we Didn’t have to pay like extra labor to Actually just Understand you know train them on on you Know different types of articles and You know what should go where uh we just We just created an app that does that Automatically for us Um and then beyond that you know zapier Is a godsend Uh you know it connects all of our tech Stack together so everything speaks Together And um we we use zapier to automate A few google sheets that we’re still Using for for Data purposes so if you were to start Your agency again to today let’s Let’s say it was a a blank slate what Would you do differently Um i would i would niche down more um When i first started word agents I i wouldn’t call this our agency any Longer we’re definitely a product high Service now But as you built a platform recently Right
Yeah it’s the platform is service Provider pro we just customized the heck Out of it For our needs so we’re kind of sitting Somewhere between a sas And an agency and the term for that is Productized service But as an agency you should totally Niche down Um we made the mistake of trying to do Content for everyone Um and what you know i did well but i Didn’t sleep i had to hustle All the time because i had to go get That next client that next Payday to just to keep um you know money In my pocket but also keep all my team Flush with more work to do if you niche Down and you focus on a specific Industry You’re gonna it’s gonna become much Easier to land clients because your Marketing materials will be able You’ll be able to focus on that one Vertical and also Uh you’ll get a lot of referral business Because um People say oh this guy did so great for My you know my My law firm practice or my you know Dentistry Practice or what have you and uh you Know guys that are in the industry have Other buddies in the industry
And uh they’ll refer you and you get a Lot of referral business that way So niching down is my number one tip for Agency owners getting started And where do you see content creation in General Uh going in in in the future are we Going towards Uh more sort of high end high quality or You know is there is there still a Quantity argument to be made Um it depends on where you’re at in in In the life cycle of your website like When it’s a new website it’s going to be Quantity based you got to get up all Those core documents and and really just Develop your topical authority within Within the the niche you’re in But after you kind of reach that Baseline then it flips to a quality Type of type of deal then you know you Have your readership And you just want to put out the best Quality content that that’s going to Engage with your readership Consistently you’re no longer worried About building articles around all the Keywords in the vertical You’re now worried about providing value To your readership To maintain them and also grow that Readership over time Um so i i think there’s always going to Be um
A market for the quantity based uh i Think we kind of At word agents we kind of straddle both Of those things Um one kind of wrinkle that popped up Recently that we weren’t expecting is The advent of the ai content creator Everything on gpt3 that’s that’s being Developed right now Uh i would i would relate that to Kind of the quality of writing that you Know an overseas writer would put out if You hired somebody but from the Philippines or India you more or less are getting the Same kind of quality From the ai writers right now and it’s Going to require Like some human interaction to polish up So that’s something we’re looking into We’re potentially going to launch an ai Content uh Product along with our our you know Human written product as well down the Line Um i don’t quite know how that’s gonna Pan out but we’re keeping an eye on it And we’re just gonna you know take it in Stride as it comes You see a day where all content is Written by ai It’s tough man uh i i’ve always said That you’re never gonna you’re never Gonna get the same insight out of a
Machine Um you know than that you would out of a A human being um but you get a lot of Really smart smart cookies out there That are learning How to develop this stuff and getting it Up to speed Um ai content i really see that for Um almost like ad-lib style content that You’re just kind of plugging information Into I know it’s used heavily in like stock Quotes and stock prospectuses where You know that can be automated very Easily news updates Things like that but things where you You need a A good level of insight to really Connect with your audience and pass Value to your audience I think that’s a good five years away Uh you know i may be putting my foot in My mouth saying that but uh You know my my opinion is that it’s you Know we got a little bit of time before The technology gets there yeah i I think a lot of people think it’s going To come along and just you know Today everyone you know it’s you have 200 writers tomorrow it’s just ai’s Doing everything I think it’s more a gradual kind of Change at least I’ve been playing around with some of
These tools and they definitely don’t Replace a A writer yet but they can help a writer You know overcome writer’s block or help You just Get started with like a new section or Like finish up something Um it’s quite clever the way it’s it’s It’s constructed Um i i think just people need to learn How to use it a little bit more Yeah you hit the nail on the head it’s It’s not going to be this wholesale Change where like one day you use You know human labor and the next day You’re using ai it’s going to be similar To like how All these optimization tools just hit The market over the past two years you Have surfer market news clearscope You know those those didn’t replace Competitive analysis Those just made it easier and it’s just Another tool in your tool stack to Develop content And i think ai content is more or less Going to be the same deal We’re just kind of learning how that’s Going to play out at this point That’s interesting yeah i’ll keep an eye On the uh the ai content Product because i’ve been doing some Experiments myself i view a youtube Video coming out
Fairly soon um where i’m like comparing Content from uh Text broker to to ai and it’s just some Really interesting uh Uh results actually so right now i think The ai content stuff Is really good for copywriting i know There’s a few specific tools out there That are great for like headlines if you If you do facebook advertising yeah it’s Working really well for that because It’s Trained for that so that’s a good use Case for it But for you know full-length long-form Blog posts I don’t know if it’s there just just yet Yeah yeah We’ll keep an eye on it then uh so i Mean we’ve been using you guys Uh for i think five or six years now uh And although we obviously have our own Uh dedicated writers for for most of our Sites Um i still find us coming back to you uh You know every Every so often whether that’s to to for Content we’re starting a new site Uh actually one of the first content Order we ever had from you guys back in 2016 i think it was in the 2015. Um we are just we just actually sold That site uh for For for six figures and it started with
A fifteen hundred dollar uh Word agents order um so yeah I i just i really admire how Uh consistent you guys have been because You know we’ve tried other other Companies in In the past and sometimes it’s good Sometimes it’s not but over A period of five years you guys have Just been been really really consistent And In uh the authority site system in Authority hacker pro Uh i know that you have a special Arrangement with our Our members you have a special rate for For those those people but You also wanted to give a really pretty Incredible uh coupon code offer To people listening today so do you want To tell us about that Yeah absolutely and first off thank you For saying that i appreciate you guys Sticking us With us for so long you know being Consistent and reliable is actually part Of our mission statement we want to be The most reliable service out there Because That’s one of the most common complaints We hear that it’s just not reliable Um content you know outsourcing content Is just not a reliable option We want to change you know change
People’s perspective about that Um but yes um we’re gonna offer a Special Deal for anybody that’s listening to This podcast we’re going to give you 110 off any of our packages that word Agents So our smallest package usually cost 120 For a thousand words so this coupon code Is actually going to Make that package ten dollars for you And that will be a good way Uh to try us out if um you’re Contemplating outsourcing content Or if you have a bigger project you can Use that 110 Coupon code off one of our bigger Packages um and As an added bonus uh if you claim uh the Coupon code Um and use it within the first seven Days after the Uh the date this podcast goes live we’re Gonna send you an additional 110 Off just as a thank you for for trying This out Um so mark i think you’re going to uh Share the coupon code in the notes Yeah we’ll we’ll put it on the on the Screen now if you’re listening on the Audio i think it’s uh Dollar 110 ah we’ll put it in the email That we send out as well but you can you Can check check the show notes or
Soundcloud youtube description we’ll put It all there for sure Uh and that’s valid for seven days 30 Days The coupon code will be valid for 30 Days after the day uh the podcast goes Live i believe That’s july 12th um but the in order to Get the secondary coupon you’ve got to Use the first coupon within the first Seven days So uh that that’s that’s the uh the Little The little uh caveat there so they just Go on to wordagents.com and And sign up for the the platform and Yeah you should be a coupon code in the Order Order space there exactly wordage.com You can scroll down right on the whole Page you’ll see Our four packages we have packages of Words That range from a thousand words all the Way up to twenty thousand words And the way it works is you buy your Package of words A dashboard is created for you um and Then you make article requests that Kind of debit from your balance of word Credits So uh yep just head over to wordance.com Pick a package and you’ll be able to Apply the coupon code
Uh and when a client’s working with you How can they get the what what Information do they need to give you Uh to get the best content possible Should they be given You know very detailed briefs just give You the keyword or like Where is the balance there we are huge Fans of the authority hacker Content briefs so if you have that just Give us that those two page briefs for Your article Um that’s all that’s necessary but Really um We you know all of our clients submit Briefs in their own way Our our doc our order form uh when you Want to submit A request for a new article you can Upload documents Um and if you aren’t sure what to Include we actually have a template on There too That spells out everything that we’re Asking for so it’s from You know your title your target keyword Secondary keywords Word length um formatting instructions Um and i i believe there’s a few other Pieces of information that you can Provide that will that will help us Along Um and in worst case scenario uh all the Instructions are reviewed by
Our quality assurance team and our Editors so if we have more questions We’ll reach out to you before production Starts just to get clarification to make Sure that we understand uh what your Expectations are Okay great so is there anything which i Haven’t asked you Uh today which i should have asked you Hmm Let’s see here i would say When it comes to building your team Teams aren’t static You want to be constantly replacing and Improving your team over time because What happens is You know writers get used to you know The same process day and night day in And day out week in and week out So what we do every quarter is uh we Review I would say the bottom 10 to 20 of our Team from a performance Perspective and we hire The same amount of new writers And we kind of put them against each Other and we see you know who’s gonna Who performs better And we keep the the better performers And say goodbye to the ones that That didn’t perform that well and um Approaching the team like that and Constantly cycling out you know the Bottom quarter of your team
Is is the way to constantly improve over Time if you do that for a few years You’re going to have a really talented Team that’s that’s within your budget Uh and and what would you say is the Biggest mistake that you’ve made Throughout this this whole journey in Terms of of of hiring writers Um don’t assume that writers know What your expectations are you have to Be very tediously Specific about that without Micromanaging You can’t micromanage you just have to Set your expectations in a very clear Way As succinctly as possible so again i go Back to Whatever you know instructions you’re Providing to writers The document is no longer than two pages Any more than that it’s just going to be Too much information And things are going to get lost so be Concise and specific about your Expectations But don’t cross that that line to Micromanagement because then Things kind of get all messed up Okay vin thanks so much for coming on Today really appreciate you uh sharing These insights with your business I really appreciate it mark this was fun Thank you
Thank you so if you guys enjoyed this Show and Uh if you have a question for for vin Actually Uh head on over to our youtube channel And leave us a comment And maybe then uh the the end of week You can have a look through and And answer some of those questions that That people have in there as well Yeah guys i’ll be there all week so i Love talking to you so let me know if You have any questions and i’ll give you As detailed as a response as i can And of course don’t forget to subscribe To our channel Like the video send us all the social Love that you can And uh we’ll see you in a couple weeks For another episode [Music] You