Today on the podcast we’re talking about 80 20 Funnel optimization now virtually Everyone who has a funnel Fails to optimize it properly and i’m Including ourselves here Authority hacker in that bucket that’s Why today i’ve brought in my friend John ainsworth he’s the owner of data Driven marketing He has over 20 years experience in Marketing and he helps Course creators to optimize their Funnels And if you’re not naturally a Salesperson perhaps you’re more Comfortable Giving value to your audience than Turning the screws with high pressure Sales copy Then you’re gonna get a lot out of this Today so let’s get started [Music] Welcome to the show john how you doing Today i Am excellent thank you very much mark uh It’s good good to have you here For the people who don’t know you or Don’t know what you do When it comes to optimizing funnels and All that kind of stuff Why why should people listen to you what We do Is we help people to find and fix the
Holes in their funnels and most people Have got way more holes than they have Any idea about So what i can talk through is like the 80 20 of increasing revenue through Improving your funnels so for example I helped a guy he’s running uh courses About classical guitar And did an audit with him he did one Day’s work and since then i interviewed Him the other day he’s made two and a Half thousand bucks a month Every month from that one day’s work Which works out as forty thousand Dollars a day Which is the kind of rate that i would Like to have Um and there’s just all these little Tricks that online course creators and People running Who’ve got a lot of traffic and are Selling physical products they don’t Realize they should have in place And if they put them in place they can Make a bunch more revenue It’s really interesting because i mean We gail and i Are online course creators at authority Hacker And we’re supposed to know quite a bit About online marketing but I i always feel as if our our funnel is A bit of a leaky bucket Uh i think i’ve heard you use that
Analogy before and there’s just all These holes in it that you kind of know Are there but You for whatever reason it never it’s Never your focus to To fix them and often i think having Someone External come and say hey fix this fix This fix this Like give you some kind of structure for For what to do can be uh Can be really helpful so hopefully you Can uh Inspire us and inspire our listeners Today um to fix some of those holes Yeah totally we worked with someone the Other day and we had if you know exactly Where to look and exactly what numbers To look at It’s incredible how simple it can be to Make the changes so there was one point In someone’s funnel On their checkout page that we looked at The number and we’re like oh That’s wrong that doesn’t add up that Doesn’t make any sense we’re like okay Change that to match this template and He changed it and it took about a day or Two something like that And they three x the conversion rate of That Course and it’s like if you just know Exactly where to look these things are They’re just there waiting for you and
Like like you said it’s It is like using a leaky bucket or it’s Like driving with the brakes on or it’s There’s just There’s people have done all the hard Work and there’s just this stuff Waiting for them the revenue they Deserve to get if If you just know where to look all right So If we’re that person where should where Should one start Yeah so there’s three things that are The easiest to do so i’m going to focus Particularly on online course creators Because that’s my world that’s my Clients but a lot of this stuff works Just the same if you’re doing E-commerce if you’re selling physical Products whatever as well So the three things the easiest ones to Do are increase the revenue per sale Increase the percentage of your email Subscribers who buy each month And increase the number of email Subscribers now i think everybody pretty Much Can get on board with the idea that if You had more revenue per sale More of your email list bought each Month and you had a bigger email list The jobs are good you know that you’re Going to be making a bunch more money From it it’s like
That’s nice john what exactly do you do I kind of get is probably what most People are thinking but that’s the basic Starting point And most people don’t a lot of people Are not focused on their email list Enough in terms of making a lot of Revenue so i really want to kind of Hammer on that a little bit Because everybody we see who is crushing It with online course sales Is doing it through their email list the Bulk of their revenue comes from their Email list And so focusing on that that’s why i Kind of wanted to To mention about that in particular to Start with is it’s absolutely crucial to Really understand that that’s An area to work on do you feel that Uh email as a medium has kind of Diminished In effectiveness over time like i i’ve Heard a lot of people say that You know 5 10 years ago it was it was Much easier with fewer emails there’s Deliverability issues people are just a Bit more I guess jaded when it comes to Promotions coming into their their email I don’t necessarily agree with that but I’ve heard a lot of people Say say that recently what’s your Thoughts
So i think to a certain extent it’s Probably true There is more email getting sent there Is harder to get into the inbox it is Harder to To make the sale through that than it Was i haven’t looked historically at the Numbers you know what was it like five Ten years ago to see if it’s definitely True but it’s pro that’s probably true And yet email is still the place that i See people make the most revenue by far Who are really really crushing it with This and it doesn’t mean that You know you can’t do facebook Retargeting or you can’t do anything Else But this is the area that still works The best for Almost everybody it’s still where the Bulk of the sales come in So what it was like five or 10 years ago Is kind of irrelevant Because it’s this is still what’s Working the best now Absolutely and uh yeah i remember 11 Years ago when i started this i I heard someone say the money is in the List and i think that still Largely reigns reigns true today i mean Most I think all successful course creators Product creators have Spent considerable amount of energy on
The on the list but if you’re so you’re Coming into a business and You want to kind of make the fastest Quickest changes Initially to um you know get get a Client some results Say uh you talked about increasing the Revenue per sale As is one of the first things you do how Do you do that what are the steps people Should should look to take and do you Have any examples of How that might look like in an actual Website yeah for sure so The this is the easiest thing to do for Most people A lot of people haven’t got this in Place and if they put it in place they Can get The additional results the fastest out Of anything So there’s two ways to do it upsells and Order bumps So the way that you then What those mean for anybody who doesn’t Know those terms An order bump is the easiest one to do And an order bump is where you have on Your checkout page a tick box For an additional product that goes with What you are selling so let’s say you’re Selling a course The order bump could be some additional Worksheets or it could be some templates
That go with it Or if you’re selling worksheets it could Be a course that goes with it Or we’ve seen somebody who was selling a Course and then they had a q a Session with people who’d already gone Through the course about what their Biggest problems were and how they Solved them And that was the additional product it’s Something that like just goes alongside With what you’re selling And the reason it’s the easiest one to Do is because You only have to write two sentences on The checkout page to go with it to sell This and people just Cannot believe the percentage of people Who Who buy these order bumps it’s about 60 To 70 percent when you get it just right And all you’ve done is put two sentences In the tick box and put a price on that And that’s that’s it And this is not mentioned anywhere else On your your sales page Uh it’s just on the on the cart where Where they they have that tick box right Yeah exactly people are just there in The buying mentality they’re like oh That’s perfect that looks like it’s Going to go with it That’s a great deal they’re only Offering this whatever it is 30 40
Off right now i’ll get that as well and They add it into the cart and check out As well so that’s the first one is the Order bump And the second one does the upsell and The upsell is so someone’s put their Credit card details in They’ve checked out the next page they Then see A video or sales page for an additional Product so If you’re in the language learning space For example if you have You’re selling the beginner’s level Course you have the intermediate level Course on the next page Or you have the beginning level course You also Sell a bundle of all of your courses or You’re selling a challenge and you say Well why not buy The whole bundle of everything or you Have A monthly membership and on the upsell Page you have the annual membership and Someone can get a discount if they buy It all now if you’re in the e-commerce Space you’ve just sold a t-shirt on the Upsell page put three t-shirts Get three of the same thing you just Bought so it’s it’s really really Straightforward in terms of Oh that makes sense as the next step and What you really want to have this set up
As Is a one click upsell which is doable in Most Course creation systems it’s doable for Most people selling in e-commerce using As a plug-in for shopify called zipify That allows you to do it There’s all kinds of relatively Straightforward ways to set it up and About 15 to 30 percent of people who buy Something will then buy the upsell that Goes with it So we had a client who i talked to her Through this and she had a promotion Going out the next day and she went home And she spent about an hour setting up Her upsell In uh teachable was and she made an Extra 1500 bucks the next day from that Hour’s work like this And that wasn’t it’s not perfect it Wasn’t the ideal sales page it wasn’t The absolute ideal product probably But it’s just it you just if you put These things in place people will buy And they will give you more money Yeah i mean you said earlier about the The order bumps we actually tried that Out last year uh two years ago sorry With uh a course launch we were doing we Put in uh Um order bump and it was just i think it Was like
30 extra templates or or something like That for For link building outreach and uh we got Nowhere near 60 I think we had a 35 uptake so maybe the The positioning wasn’t right or the Price point wasn’t right or or something Wasn’t wasn’t ideal But even then like if we’re half as good As we should be That’s one in three people essentially Um Paying an extra 100 bucks or whatever it Was For for for each uh checkout and that Adds up Really really quickly considering how How little work it is and If you’re anything like our business you Probably have extra Resources videos stuff you’ve worked on Before Lying around anyway that wouldn’t be too Difficult to You know create content for for Something like that Um i wanted to to talk as well about Price like what are your thoughts on Using Like price not of the upsells or the um Order bumps but Just of the core product as a way of Increasing revenue do you think Course creators charge too much not
Enough they should be charging more So there’s a particular kind of course Creator that i tend to work with And that is i think they’re kind of Similar to people in your audience it’s People who are Focused they’re first and foremost a Teacher they’re somebody who wants to Share information they want to help People And those people generally priced too Low So on average in on the whole They tend to price too low so i’m Working with someone at the moment He’s selling home recording courses About how to you know have a home Recording studio And he told me he’s already increased His prices a couple of times and i’m Looking at it i’m like Dude you need to put them up again and He’s like oh so another like 20 And i’m like nah can we double them Because i think really this is just Way too cheap like if you look through The numbers if you see how many people Go to your site and buy the courses Directly Not through an email promotion not Having got to know you better through All of the content you send out via Email Just they go on to your sales page and
They buy it there’s no discount If that’s really high if you’re getting A lot of people doing that Then probably your course price is too Low Because what we see the majority of People who are really crushing it Are doing is they don’t make many sales On the site of their course They’re not really people aren’t just Going on and buying they’re getting onto The email list and then when there’s a Promotion there’s a discount of 30 40 50 At some point that’s when they buy and Those are the people who are making it a Killing this if people just go onto your Site and buy it at full price and it’s Like Probably that price is too low yeah it’s Interesting i i feel like there’s kind Of Two types of course creators like There’s the people that want to Create a course to make money and then There’s the people that build an Audience Because they’re kind of interested in Something and then look to monetize that By Building a course kind of as a secondary Thing And the the latter type of people Seem to be i wouldn’t i don’t want to Say the former are
Unethical but like the the they tend to Be more kind of money focused and so Tend to start with with higher prices And And stuff um yeah it’s it’s interesting I remember we were Chatting about that a couple weeks ago Um when we had a Call before this and that was the first Time i kind of thought about those two Like groups of people in in that way Yeah the fear i think people have is That they either need to be an Or they need to be a loser and if only There was some Third option you know where you could Actually be a really good person create Really good courses And make good money from it and turns Out there is it’s just you can you know You can set these things up and you can Make money through these funnels even if You’re a really good person Um and it’s it’s it’s awesome to see Those people Start to make the kind of money that They really should because it’s like They’ve been spending years honing their Craft getting good at teaching people About something Making amazing content building an Audience and it’s like this is just Waiting for you to put this stuff in Place
And then you can you can double your Revenue a lot of times What do you think about payment payment Plans yeah Payment plans is good um we often use Them as A down sell so we’ll have the full Priced offer and then if you don’t buy Then we offer the payment plan sometimes We do the payment plan upfront i know That you do for your Your premium course don’t you we we’ve Done it both ways So with the authority site system We have a funnel and when you at the Moment at least when you go through it There’s a deadline funnel style discount Offer And then if you reject that or you don’t Take take us up on it You then get put into a mini Funnel where you you get a payment plan Offer so we’re only offering payment Plans there To people who have not bought at the Full price When we do our launches for authority Hacker pro we have both pricing On the sales page and you know the cart Has has two options we actually push the Payment plan As the the primary uh offer So i we haven’t actually done enough Analytics on this to determine which one
Is best To to be honest with you but yeah i Guess you could do it both ways Yeah i haven’t got a huge amount of data On that i heard a really great story From somebody once about how they Accidentally put the payment plan as Being i think Slightly less than the actual full price When you added it all up And then just everybody jumped on it and They sold way more than they’re Expecting you because everybody felt Like they’d taken advantage of them and Kind of got this this crazy good deal So they’re like huh maybe i’ll always do That So i’ve never tried that that kind of Feels a bit weird to me Um but yeah payment plans Are great for downsell for definite like We do that with uh we did that with a Client who was selling courses about Digital painting And we would offer the full price Membership for a year and then it would Down sell to monthly and then we’d do a Downsell to a 14-day trial For one dollar and tons of people took Up the 14-day trial and then a lot of them Stuck around afterwards It was something like 30 and if you Really nail it with them with a
Membership You should get about 50 of people Sticking around afterwards so that’s a Great downsell The disadvantage with leading with that Is there’s a bunch of people who will Just pay you everything upfront for the Whole year and you lose out on Some of those then won’t stick around For the year or they If they go with monthly or if you need The cash flow because you’re running ads Into this as well Then that doesn’t really add up so well You kind of want to get the money up Front so So a lot of times we’ll do it as a Downsell but it’s yeah it’s totally bad If you think it’s going to make it Easier for people to buy Why not sure okay so Anything else on increasing revenue any Tactics that you You have that’s the easiest ones like Those order bumps and upsells Is like the easiest ones to start with For definite there’s a there’s a bunch Of other things and a lot of it is Around Trying to get the pricing right trying To get the you know analyze what is it That people are likely to pay how long Are they likely to stick around for if You do for example if you do
A monthly membership and on average People stick around for five months You can afford to offer the annual Membership for the cost of six or seven Months because then on average it’s Going to get your People up to sticking around for longer And a lot of those people if they go Onto an if anybody goes on to an annual Plan Some of them are going to renew on the Annual as well and so they’re going to Get you’re going to get more revenue From them long term But in terms of like the 80 20 things The things i would say to people start With this Do not pass go until you have done these Things upsells and order pumps without a Doubt they are the fastest easiest thing To get started with I wanted to ask you a question about Recurring revenue actually because Our model thus far has been i mean We did actually offer our products as a Membership like six years ago when we we First started Doing them um as a monthly membership But we moved away from that and we ended Up doing a one-off fee so no annual Recurring just you pay And you’re in like for life so all the New blueprints We release people who bought last year
The year before whatever get them For free as well um now part of me feels Like this is this is good because you Know it’s a very attractive Value proposition and gets people in Long term we have loads of raving fans And yeah it feels good but other part of Me is like well are we leaving Money on the table here because there’s Not that You know people have nothing else to buy From us kind of thing Yeah so the reason why upsells is the Generally the easiest thing to make more Money from is there is a percentage of Your email list as a percentage of your Customers Who want to spend more money with you They want to pay more money to get the Premium version of it they want to get Something extra And if you go to perry marshall’s got a Tool called 8020curve.com You can put in your existing how many People are buying how much they’re Paying and it’s going to tell you How many people would then pay x amount Of money So if you go to starbucks you can buy a Regular coffee or you can buy a fancy Coffee or you can buy a coffee machine For 2 000 bucks Because as a percentage who will spend That extra money if you go to the
Football stadium You can buy a regular ticket or you can Buy a bunch of beers and stuff as well Or you can Rent a whole box or you can you know and That’s going to cost Whatever hundreds of thousands of Dollars so there’s always people who are Willing to spend more money So i generally my attitude is find a way To let those people spend more money With you if they really if they already Really want to And how do you do that though without You know Selling your time or or spending ages Creating Like a new tier of product or something Yeah It’s an interesting one isn’t it so There’s a couple of ways i that i See that and they different ones work For different people so for you If you had the an offer of right if you Want to get our upgraded version of our Course there Then you can spend a bit of extra money Every time and get the upgraded version That seems like there’s a Clear easy a bunch of people would spend That money and then what you’re saying Is the downside to that for you Is maybe our fans wouldn’t be quite so Raving and we wouldn’t get quite so much
Word of mouth If we had that in place you could have Affiliate offers of other things that You know people who buy from you maybe They also would like to buy a service That goes with that For the done for you from somebody else Who you’re connected with And you see like um see dream james Schramko Started doing this a lot more in uh in His office and Perry marshall as well where they’re Promoting other people who do the Done-for-you side of things Or you can have um some things that are You know you might normally think oh Just put all of that into the regular Course and you can have okay this is the Regular course but because we know we’re Going to get a bunch of extra money we Can afford to spend more time on making This additional thing that’s going to go With it as well Or you could sell other people’s courses As well that maybe accompany you What you’re offering to that would fit Really well so for example We have a coaching program around Helping people to To make more money through their funnels But we don’t do facebook ads So we then can also sell somebody else’s Course that’s about facebook ads that
Goes with it as well So there’s a whole bunch of angles for It and like when we’re working with Clients A huge amount of our time is figuring Out that answer like What offers fit what do you put where How do you split all of these bits up That’s why i say that’s not one of the Easiest bits to do It’s the you know it’s the what have you Already got that you could just upsell People To just put something like that in place And start there And then because what i see is people Get caught up in all of this they’re Like Well what about this and do i change That and say oh you’ve just invented a Six month project that might not work Why don’t we start with just putting Order bumps and upsells in place and Have something that’s like Okay that’s going to work we’ll make a Bit more money cool We’ll come back to the other stuff later Yeah make sense Um okay so let’s move on and talk about Getting uh our email subscribers to to Actually buy Um i know from personal experience i Hate selling like i hate Being that like high pressure hey you
Know like the Cheesy american dude hey you gotta buy This and here’s how much value it’s Gonna give you and And all that stuff it’s not really in my Nature um i think we’ve gotten better at It Over over time but i see an awful lot of People who have Really good sites really good audi Really big audience and A really good product which is pretty Like fair value But they’re like afraid to afraid to Sell afraid to Send too many emails or they’re afraid To annoy their their audience How do you get over mentally how do you Get over that hurdle mentally Yeah so i see this a lot this is One of the most common mental blocks That people have they worry if i Send more emails to people it’s going to Annoy them so what we do is we use i Start everybody with this one tactic Which is super straightforward And works really really reliably and Course creators are really comfortable With as well so it’s about sending more Regular and more Charming email promotions so we’re Trying to find a way of sending content That the person who’s sending it the Course creator is going to feel great
About they’re going to feel really Comfortable they’re going to feel like Oh i actually Like sending this and therefore they’re Going to be willing to send more regular Promotions And give an idea with a promotion if Somebody has got a bunch of courses Then what we recommend doing is sending A promotion every two weeks So two promotions a month probably and You can do more if you’ve got let’s say You’ve only got Three or four products that you could Sell then you could do one a month Most people are doing quite a lot less Than that If you’ve got i’ve got a client at the Moment he’s got 10 and so we’re doing One every two weeks and then repeating Every whatever that will be for every Five months Now in order to be able in order to feel Comfortable with sending more email Promotions What we need is to have a system that Feels comfortable And this was come up with by a friend of Mine called shona beckwith and She is an absolute sweetheart and she Runs a language learning site called Perfect english grammar and she wanted i Told her she needed to start sending More email promotions and she kind of
Didn’t want to she didn’t feel Comfortable So the tactic she came up with was every Email she does two promotions a month And every email uh has got Useful content in it from the course That she’s selling So she’s taken one tiny little tip Something that people can go through in Two Three maximum five minutes and she puts That tip Into the email she starts out every Email with something personal so The weather in london today is probably Raining And then and then she gives the tip Oh and then she says we’ve got a Discount on this course this week 30 Off then she gives the tip then at the Bottom she gives another reminder that There’s this discount this week Maybe a testimonial or something that Goes with it makes her feel totally Comfortable because Every email she’s giving value she’s Teaching and then That’s five days in a row she’ll do that For one course and then on the sixth day She’ll have one email that says This is the last chance the car’s Closing in Three hours what have you does that a Couple of times a month
Changing from doing one promotion a Month to two like that allows her to Double their revenue from 10k a month to 20k a month Just from doing that she’s now testing Doing that four times a month because She’s more comfortable with it she’s More That is not the email promotion that is Going to convert the absolute best But what i found is that it’s much more Important to send More often than it is to send the Perfect email promotion Yeah on average done is better than Perfect right Exactly and only sending you know two Times a year that’s great Versus two times a month that’s okay the The difference is Enormous so we’ve seen 0.1 to 0.7 Of an email list will buy any time we’ve Seen Send a promotion i’ve heard people talk About getting above one percent getting Like two or three percent But then those people are saying ah that Only worked for a little while it Generally is around 0.1 to 0.7 so if you get 0.2 Twice a month and you do that every Month That’s way better than having one that Gets a 0.7 every three months or
Something it’s just Night and day difference so i like the Sorry come on i was gonna say i love That tactic as well because It it it first of all it resonates with Me like I i don’t have to come up with some like Super cheesy salesy email he’s just like Do i do um write about content Create content and then it will kind of Like do the selling but it also It’s easy because i’ve already done the Hard work of You know whatever lesson or module it is In the the course like figuring out how To teach that and i’m just Taking that and i guess giving it in in A more concise way But i don’t have to think about what to Say i’m just kind of rewriting Stuff i already have so it makes it even Easier yeah it’s great isn’t it it’s Just It’s it’s simple it’s easy people feel Comfortable with it The audience like it unsubscribes not a Problem Spam complaints not a problem there’s Nobody who unsubscribes when they’re Getting a useful tip in their email Every day it just it just doesn’t happen We actually have seen occasionally as Unsubscribe rates go Down rather than up from doing this it’s
Awesome And um and you make more money like Everyone’s a winner I find some people are very very focused Too Focused in fact on their unsubscribe Uh on the number of subscribers in their List and their unsubscribe rate Um i was talking to a guy a couple years Ago and uh he created What was a pretty good good product and He wanted to promote it to his list and He hadn’t sold it to them Previously but he was very sort of Cautious about it and got them to opt Into us Another specific um sales list sub list That he He had because in his own words he Didn’t want to Lose subscribers and you know Miss out on potentially monetizing them At some point in the future and i was Like Dude this is that point in the future So i think it’s quite a common problem Yeah what i used to do is i would try And convince people that they shouldn’t Worry about and that the reason they Have an email list is in order to be Able to make some money from it and That’s the Point and what i found was i was i felt Like i was beating my head against a
Brick wall So i just decided to avoid that Completely by explaining to people how They can do emails in a way that doesn’t Lead to unsubscribes Where people actually like getting it And This isn’t like i said this isn’t the Approach that is going to lead to the Highest revenue Overall but if you do it then that’s way Better than having something perfect That you’re not willing to do So i suggest everybody start with this And then later on you can start to go or Maybe i’d be more comfortable adding in Another Sales tactic here maybe a testimonial or A case study here or Starting doing some storytelling that Helps to make the sale or what have you But it’s like that’s okay that that’s Not the easiest thing Start with this you can do this uh so What are some of those Um like the perfect sales sequence or The perfect uh Sales funnel what does that actually Look like wow okay so we’re well out of The 80 20 zone here into the really Full-on stuff okay so if you’re gonna do A launch for a more expensive program You want to really promote it and make a Whole bunch of money from it
What you start with maybe a month in Advance is useful content That is going to help to deal with People’s limiting beliefs their false Beliefs that would stop them from Buying from you so job number one is you Have to figure out what is it that they Believe about the world that would stop Them buying your product What is it that you need them to believe In order to think that buying your Product is the The perfect next step for them it has to Be true and you share Content that helps with that so it could Be case studies it could be examples it Could be stories from your own life what Have you You do that for a month so there’s no Pitching there’s no saying you’re just Trying to change their world view Okay just might not belong in that Sentence you’re trying to change their World view To understand why this area this topic This approach that you take is so Valuable Then you have a promotion of a webinar So you promote a webinar that you’re Going to do in the webinar goes into More detail on those topics and explains To them why this approach is the right One why that your course is done in a Certain way
Without ever pitching you’re just Explaining this concept you’re trying to Get people to buy into this approach Then at the end of the webinar you Transition into promoting with an early Bird offer for what you’re selling So you have the early bird offer you Have the chance to buy it at the Discount maybe with some bonuses right Away you have a great guarantee that you Put in there as well That cart closes then you move into the Regular email promotion to your whole Email list where you promote Out to everybody without that huge early Bird discount just the regular promotion You promote that for a while you’re Going to have a number of different Things in there you’re telling people About the benefits And you’re telling them about the Features but then you’re also dealing With objections you’re giving you know This is what hap this is what issue you Might be concerned about This is why that’s going to be okay so It’s not going to work for people like Me so you include a case study What if i’m not happy with it so you Include a guarantee What if whatever else you can have a Long faq Question andy fossett who runs gmb it’s A fitness
Courses site he has a 3 000 word email He sends out in one of those sequences Which nobody reads all of it but it’s Got every question you might want Answered and it’s all answered in there Somewhere And the right people will read through And find the answer and be like oh cool This is going to work for me And they’ll go ahead and buy then what We move on to can’t close on that Then car open again for a payment plan So you say okay some people didn’t buy It and now at that price We’re concerned about the price might be In the issue So then you open the cart again have a Payment plan and then you close the cart Again on that There’s a few other things extra you can Throw in as well challenges work great As a way of warming up your whole Audiences doing facebook lives during That whole period All of that is difficult and it’s Stressful and it’s exhausting and it Works Like gangbusters it works amazingly well We’ve got a an ex-client he was doing an Amazing job with this and he did a 200 000 launch from from using all of those Tactics It’s fantastic but it also is you have To know going into it it’s tiring
I think as well a lot of people are like Oh that’s there’s so much to do there And they maybe put off or don’t even get Started because they think they need all Of that In order to do a launch in order to to Sell a product because That’s what the internet marketers say Or that’s what everyone else does but Yeah the vast majority of people like They don’t even do half of that and they Still have You know pretty good amount of success Yeah if you just do one of those bits It improves it and then what the thing a Lot of people don’t get is you reuse This stuff You do the same launch if you do that if You decide you want to do launches You do that launch every six months Let’s say and every time that you do it You improve the system a little bit you Add in another step to go right cool This time We’ve got the webinar written we know How to do that this time we’re also Going to do the challenge or this time We’re also going to do some facebook Lives or We’re going to tweak that little bit That didn’t work so well last time and We’re going to but apart from that we’re Going to use the same emails We’re going to have the same
Presentation we’re going to have all of Those parts of the same And over the years you build this up Like amy porterfield Makes millions of dollars from her Launches From the courses she’s selling but she Built that up Over years getting better and better at It each time that she does it What what are the challenges you Mentioned what what what’s that So the idea with the challenge is you’re Trying to get people on board with the Idea that They can do this so for example the Digital painting guy What he’s doing is he’s running a Challenge for a week about Portraits digital painting portrait and During that week You given an exercise to do to paint a Portrait on your Ipad or whatever you’re using and you Get feedback from him and you get input And everybody’s working it for a week And there’s a course that goes with it For that week that’s available And he’s on facebook and he’s giving Feedback to everybody and he’s building Up all this trust And all this authority with people and The point of it the reason you’re doing This is to convince people they can
Succeed You’re helping them to do this one small Thing so that when it comes time to buy The course which is for a much Bigger topic then they’re like oh i Believe i can actually do this and i Like the guy and i trust him and i can See that he knows what he’s talking About and i can see his content’s great We had a client was selling something Around Social media they were going to teach a Tactic for social media that was going To get you in more clients And so the challenge was okay we’re just Going to use one little tactic from in This and we’re going to teach that and You’re going to do that for a week and You’re going to see results from it And at the end of that we’re going to Say we’ve got this whole course that Teaches you 18 tactics and is going to get you 10 Times better results But you believe it now because you’ve Been through the process That’s really smart actually it’s kind Of like uh giving I mean you are giving away some some Content for for free but you’re actually Taking people along on that journey not Just Here’s a bunch of content they’re like Engaging with you i like that so you
Might have to try something like that For uh for an upcoming launch uh okay so We we talked about increasing the Revenue for sale and we talked about Um getting your subscribers to buy i Guess the The last thing is getting more Subscribers right How do we do that so there’s two Different areas that work For most people i think in your audience One is On increasing on-site opt-ins and the Other one increasing Number of people who are sent to lead Magnets from off-site so if we go Through the on-site one first It is pretty straightforward there’s Just a bunch of Work that goes with there’s a number of Steps to go through to do it Actually there’s three tactics the the This one’s these this one is so easy It’s mind-boggling turn off double Opt-in Most lots of people have double opt-in Turned on Because they don’t want to have people On their email list who aren’t opening Those emails What that means is someone has to open That very first email And click the link in order to get onto Your list what if they just get busy
That day and they don’t click the link That’s it they never get any other Emails from you And some people totally out of those People are totally interested and would Love to be on your list and would buy Stuff from you and if you just turn off Double opt-in and you can have a way of You know Cleaning your list every 30 days or a Couple of months or what have you so That you get rid of the ones who weren’t A good fit and the email didn’t work But just turn that off and we’ve seen We’ve seen people double their Number of email subscribers per month Just from turning that off And revenue went up about 20 something In that kind of ballpark So that’s the first one that is super Easy The second one though in terms of Increasing on-site opt-ins Most people don’t know what their opt-in Rate is and Mostly people are between about 0.5 and 1 From virtually everybody we’ve seen and Most people about that stage As a rule of thumb good is about 2 Percent Greatest five percent best you’ve ever Seen is seven and a half some people for Them the highest they’ll be able to get
To is Three three and a half percent other People can get that seven and a half but That’s kind of gives you a range And the ways you can do that are easiest One Set up a pop-up site-wide pop-up after 30 seconds Or an exit pop or if people have Scrolled to a certain Amount down the page something along Those kind of lines having a pop-up I’ll just just interrupt you there to to Tell our audience about the Podcast gail and i did a couple months Ago about pop-ups which i’ll link to Uh the top of this youtube video as well So if you guys want to learn more about That check that out as well but continue Please Cool the second one that Almost nobody does is inline opt-in Forms in blog posts And for your audience i think this is Like going to make a huge difference So the idea is in the blog post you’ve Got a ton of people who will go from Google or youtube or whatever they’re Finding your content they go to the blog Post and they’re reading through it and On there at no point do you ask them for Their email address So this might you gonna have a pop-up But then halfway through the content
You put in a button they can click the Button and it brings the pop-up Up and then they can put in their email Address so you’re promoting your best Lead magnet If you want to get really smart on this You have different lead magnets on Different blog posts depending on what What topic the blog post is about and What lead magnet fits with it But you don’t have to have that that’s Like ninja level stuff what you just Need is to have it on every blog post If you’ve got so many blog posts that That sounds like an enormous bit of work And you don’t want to do it Do an 80 20 analysis so start off by Going into google analytics finding Which pages are the most visited Start at the top work your way down the List And that’s what we did we had a client Who had so many pages that there was no Way we could do this For everything without it taking like a Month or two So we just started by doing it with 100 Most regular visited pages And i think got her opt-in rate up from About 0.5 to about 1.5 1.6 percent some of that with these These two tactics on their own So then the next one is having a sidebar Opt-in form
So on if you have a sidebar on your blog Posts Put an opt-in form in there and what Works what tends to work beautifully Well is if that stays Sticky on the side so as people scroll Down that sidebar stays there And they always have that opt-in form Available And that’s it if you do those things That is like the 80 20 of it If you want to get really ninja on it Then you can make the lead magnets match With the blog posts You can have better lead magnets figure Out what’s going to work better for your Audience but don’t start with that just Have whatever you’ve already got Make people see it in more places a good Uh tactic we used there was we Created a lead magnet which is a webinar And it covers like five different Subtopics And so you don’t need to create Different lead magnets for Different categories or different blog Posts you just have one lead magnet but The opt-in can just say Like it highlights everything it it Includes but it focuses on like one area Which is related to the blog post so it Feels more You know relevant to to to the the Specific blog post and that actually
Uh helped conversions quite Significantly as well nice What you’ll see interestingly with Webinars is the opt-in rate Tends to be a bit lower because it’s More of a commitment from people They’re committing to spend an hour but Each of those people tends to be worth More to you because if someone will go Through an hour then at the end you can Make a pitch for a really You know a more expensive product and a Higher percentage of people will buy it Um so that’s that’s kind of worth Knowing going into it with those numbers I mentioned at the start like you’re Likely to have a lower number if you’ve Got a webinar as the front end but Um they’re fantastic i love webinars What makes a good lead magnet then Okay so if you want to increase your Opt-in rate the most you want something That is going to be Very easily consumable and What does that mean like five minutes 15 Minutes yeah Almost no work on the part of the person So not Not training like a cheat sheet or a Template Or something that they can just take and Use without having to actually do any Studying or figuring out or what have You themselves that’s the stuff that
Tends to work the best There’s some work done by digital Marketer around lead magnets where they Did some research into what ones tend to Work the absolute best and they found That being Really specific like for example They do something for people who are Like preppers And they had how to grow and Enough food for a family of six in 18.64 square feet And it was like a you know it’s like Unbelievably specific and they found That kind of thing tend to work really Really well it seems to make it more Believable Um did that digital painting company i Mentioned before they have brushes Digital brushes that you can just Download and so you download it and then You’ve got it you don’t have to do Anything extra to learn how to use it You already know how to use the brushes But now you’ve just got this additional Thing so that Kind of stuff tends to work really Really well cheat sheets templates Swipe files that kind of thing uh One thing that that we do a lot on our Podcast Is we mention and i’m going to mention It now authority Authorityhackertraining.com
Um so we we bought a separate domain and There’s nothing on it it just redirects To like authority hack To our landing page um for our webinar Training sign up on authority hacker but It’s just it’s much easier To say on the podcast or on a video Rather than you know authority hacker Dot com forward slash lp forward slash This Dash this or whatever yeah um and and We’ve had we tried to we have quite a Few people Coming coming through that just because It’s a bit more kind of catchy as well So one of the reasons as well why i feel Like your brand name Should be very easy to get correctly When you hear it i’ll give you an Example of this so our previous company We had an agency It was called higher click h-i-g-h-e-r Click you know but so many people Thought it was Higher like h-i-r-e click Uh and one of my friends has the the Number four Instead of the word for in his domain Name and it’s just like it’s a nightmare Because uh You you can’t kind of use these these Taxes and just people Don’t don’t catch it so easily there’s a Blog about
Um apple technology called six colors From a guy called jason snell And he bought the domain and then he’s Like ah British people spell colors differently Damn it That domain as well and then redirected It to go to the to the regular one Yeah that that that’s a nightmare I i feel really bad for anyone who’s in The the aluminium or As as well i know that’s another big one Um Okay what type of products work the best What do you mean so like if i want to Make a course about something like What what should i put in it What should you put in the course okay Yeah Because we have we have quite a few Subscribers quite a few listeners who Um they have a uh content-based websites Right they’re mostly monetizing through Through affiliate at the moment um How do you how do you know where you Should put your energy in what what Should be in the course Which topics you should include how you Should structure it In order to be most attractive to Potential Customers yeah i’d say this is not my Top area of expertise because i’m mostly Helping people who they’ve got a course
And they’re like I don’t go in and suggest them about What they do about it but Which ones have you seen work Particularly well The ones that i see work the best is Ones that are solving a problem that People have already got And people already know right i need to Get this problem solved the world has Convinced them That this problem needs solving and then They turn up with a course that actually Solves it So there’s a lady called liz wilcox and She sells courses About rv maintenance now she doesn’t Know Anything about maintaining an rv she Could she’s never even changed a tire on A bike But she was writing about rvs and people And she asked everybody What’s the biggest problem you’ve got What do you want sorted and people said I want to know how to maintain my rv so She hired someone to make a course about Rv maintenance And then sold that she’s she’s an email Marketer she’s like i know how to sell Stuff but i don’t know anything about The the topic And what we’ve seen with um with clients Before is
If they’ve got if they’re teaching like A hobby skill If they if there’s a business angle to It if there’s a way of turning that Hobby into a way of making money Then that tends to work amazingly well Because There’s a bunch of people in the Audience who will spend much more money To solve that problem to to um to make More make more revenue from it The people who we see making the the Highest Per customer tend to be in the b2b space You know someone who is Who is selling how do you make more Money As a financial advisor running your Financial advisor business They can make a lot more revenue per Person than someone selling like a Language learning course Because it’s seen as more an investment In that case rather than a A cost or a purchase yeah absolutely And and they make their money back it’s Very easy to convince someone to spend Money if they’re going to make double The money back again in a relatively Short time if they if they believe That’s true And um yeah so that’s the kind of things That we’ve seen Work really well but the biggest thing
The biggest thing i just always see is Is their product market fear like Is this something that people really Want If you are trying to convince somebody That they need this problem solved You have made yourself a hard problem You’ve made yourself a bad situation There’s just no need for it There are problems in the world that People are staying up At night they are losing sleep over Getting this problem sort of sorting This out making this work they’re Frustrated they’re annoyed this is Building up And if you can solve one of those Problems your life’s going to be a lot Easier Like if you were selling burgers You had the dodgiest burger van in town And it’s gross and it’s disgusting but You turn up outside a nightclub that’s Not had any food in there all night at Three in the morning when they’re all Closing You have got a starving crowd and they Will buy your burgers it does not matter How dodgy they are So you can have uh you don’t have to Have the perfect product if you’re Solving something that people Really want solved i think that’s why The uh the average kebab shop
Shuts at 3am [Laughter] I’ve eaten some of those and i never Felt good about it but i needed that Burger i needed that kind of Time yeah go right place right time um Okay great uh is there anything that i i Haven’t asked you About this stuff which which i maybe Should have yeah so there’s one more Thing people can do to increase Their email subscribers that works Really easily and that is if you’ve got Traffic from off site so you’re on Youtube or instagram or pinterest Or whatever point people from there to Your lead magnets Now what happens if you have a lead Magnet paid to a page specifically for That lead magnet you link to like your Authorityhackertraining.com if you’re Pointing someone straight there If they’ve gone from somewhere else from A different site To get to it you’re going to have an off The chart opt-in rate we tend to see About 70 to 80 Opt-in rate on those pages when it’s Coming from off-site whereas a normal Opt-in rate from on-site is 30 or 40 So just get those people over to those Lead magnets so if you’re doing youtube Videos Have a promotion of the lead magnet
Mention it in the video put something at The beginning put something at the end Have something in the show and the notes Underneath there’s a pin no under it Have a little ad within what you’re you Know within what you’re um Offering within what you’re teaching in The in the video if you’ve got a podcast Do the same thing have something at the Beginning have something at the end Pointing people to your lead magnet like You say with authority hacker training You’re pointing people to it on a Regular basis reminding them about it Put it in the show notes That is where you’ve got your traffic Source on youtube or podcast or whatever But you want to get them into your email List to buy so you’ve got to get them in There somehow you have to remind them of Your lead magnets Awesome yeah i’m i i really really love Talking about this stuff It’s i find it super super interesting And uh I i i feel like it’s something More marketers should pay attention to Like Specifically like content type marketers Because what we said earlier That like fear of too much too much Selling and like I think the tactics we’ve talked about Today they’re they’re not really like
Hard selling people they’re just Kind of optimizing um your your Probably leaky bucket funnel as it were Um but if anyone’s have been listening And thinking ah i need some help with This Um how how and what what exactly do you Typically do to to assist people what Does your company do for them Yeah we have a group coaching program Which works for most people and so Anybody who’s more entry level anybody Who’s under Say 20 000 a month this is like the Starting point this is what we Find is we’re able to help most people To double their revenue Most people can double their revenue by Putting in place the tactics for my Group coaching So if anybody’s interested in that just Drop us an email john Datadrivenmarketing.com And i can talk you through all the Details and explain kind of how it all Works but it’s basically a six-week Program where we go through all of these Tactics And help people to actually put it in Place and we can give examples and we’ve Got Teams who are supporting with it and We’ve got an answer every question you Know the whole thing to support everyone
With it If somebody’s just a bit more curious And they want to know well what kind of Results could i get Then we’ve also got a calculator so they Can go to Datadrivenmarketing.comcalculator Put in their numbers and they’re going To get an estimate of about how much Extra revenue They could make it’s it’s quite scary When you start putting in the numbers And and you see just how how much you’re You’re leaving on the table with this And how a 0.5 percent increase in opt-in rates or Uh Uh 20 increase in your uh um Conversion rate can can actually make Such a big Big impact over a period of time so so Go check out what was the url again Data driven marketing.com dot co slash Calculator yeah okay cool we’ll put that In the show notes for everyone Who’s listening to the audio version as Well Um okay john well really appreciate you Coming on today Um thanks very much for your your time And sharing your Knowledge and and insights with us um Are you on social media as well should People go anywhere to follow you or
Yeah i’m on on social media i’m mostly Active in our facebook group The advanced online course creators People can come join us in there Um apart from that i’m i’m not so much Of a social butterfly outside of that Okay um and that’s a free group as well It’s free great yeah okay Perfect we’ll we’ll link to that as well Um all right well thanks for your time Today and uh thank you for listening at Home I hope you enjoyed this show uh if you Did uh be sure to Leave us a comment on on youtube if you Have any specific questions Uh maybe we can ask john later in the Week to come in and check and maybe if You have some time Answer answer one or two of those yep uh If there’s if there’s not too many Um and if you like this kind of episode If you want to hear more about this Stuff then Definitely let us know that as well i’m Really keen to Get more into the like advanced funnel Side of things this year with some of Our Our shows so let us know how you guys Enjoy this one But that’s all for now we’ll see you Next week or in two weeks time rather With another episode
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