So a lot of people get really excited About the prospect of building And monetizing an email list and if you Are excited about that we have made a Podcast two weeks ago about that topic So you can go and check it out Before you watch this episode but the Problem is most people set up their lead Magnets and opt-in popups and people Start joining their email list and then Crickets you don’t know what to send to Your list and even less how to make Money from it i know because i’ve been There too And you’re afraid to promote stuff to Them i mean you’re afraid people are Going to call you a sellout selling Stuff via email and directly is A lot more aggressive than passively Selling through ranking reviews on Google It can be a little bit scary when you’re Just starting with it so In today’s episode mark and i are going To be sharing The techniques that we use to engage and Monetize the email is that we built with Websites We will be answering very common Questions like how often should you Email your list Should you write short or long emails How much value Emails versus commercial emails should
You send and how to automate the whole Thing in a very clever way So without further teasing let’s get Started [Music] Hey everyone welcome back to the Authority hacker podcast this is going To be the second Episode of the series we’re doing on Email marketing i don’t know if we’ll do A third one or not Uh we’ll decide about that we’ll see on The reactions etc it was an interesting One we did the first one two weeks ago On optin popups and Overall like up getting emails and Capturing emails but opt-in pop-ups Is a big part of our strategy and if you Have a site it’s going to be probably a Big part of yours It was interesting in the sense that This definitely wasn’t the podcast that Got the most views but It got good engagement and a lot of People commenting they were commented Sorry that they were excited About us covering these topics so you Know we’re going to go with it Uh and regardless of whatever youtube Thinks of it etc And today we are going to cover like What to do with the emails you’re Collecting so if you want to know how to Build your list
Uh go check out this podcast two weeks Ago i think there’s pencils podcast in Between And then uh come back here and watch This one and then we will be here Because you can watch this Video anytime you want it’s not just the Premiere and we are doing this of course With mark because i have been doing all My email marketing with mark so How are you doing mark i’m doing good And i just realized We did our 250th Podcast episode last week and we did Absolutely zero celebration we don’t Care Yeah didn’t even say it about it this is Episode 251 So yeah we’re a quarter of the way to One thousand That’s uh both gray and sad you know It’s like that you we get to talk so Much On how many podcast downloads do you Have indoor on this podcast actually Like ever i mean checking let me check The audio the audio has Almost 2 million actually 1.93 million Downloads Since we started on soundcloud plus Whatever is on youtube that doesn’t Count the youtube view so probably Probably around not too far from 2 Million pretty much
Uh interesting well thank you for Listening everyone i guess Uh it’s i guess my analogies are not That bad knock You can’t uh you can’t make fun of them Anymore But if you have nothing to add on that Topic let’s talk about Email marketing sure uh and now before We jump into like the tactics extract There will be tactics Uh we will talk about like advanced Stuff we’ll talk about the tools you Should use we will talk about All that stuff in this episode i want to Kind of like you know i like to zoom out A bit and be like is it worth my time Like How does it fit into the overall like Authority design model et cetera So where where does email fit are you Gonna make more money than writing Reviews are you gonna make less money You know is it more less volatile et Cetera et cetera i think that’s Quite important and i like to make when We have we open that topic i like to Make the distinction between The people who sell their own products Whether that’s Physical products or uh info products or Services actually Um and the people who are just playing The affiliate game
And who are trying to refer people to You know buy other people’s products Essentially and that’s how you monetize And maybe you’re doing some advertising As well right so There will be two categories here and to Be frank the benefits of email marketing Is going to differ quite a bit between These two categories right so Let’s start with the people who don’t Have products the people who do the Classic affiliate game the people who Maybe have abstract media vine whatever On their site as well and that’s how They monetize Like what is email marketing gonna do For you i’ll do this one you can do the Products one actually um The first thing is it generates regular Traffic to your New content which sounds like meh um But you when you when we have done that We have noticed that When we generate activity on our new Post we manage to Essentially it ranks faster usually when Your site has a bit of authority etc Like Stuff happens on google like i can’t Tell you why exactly but what i know is Like Uh content that we have published that We have then promoted heavily Has often showed up patreon on google
Pretty fast Versus content that we would just Publish not tell anyone and then it Takes several weeks to show up even on Very high authority sites um so it’s one Of these things that And i think a lot of seos agree right When we have guests that tend to ask That question and i tend to kind of like Bring up that topic and most people tend To agree that They seem to observe the same thing so That’s one of the things you can Generate traffic on tap Uh i was actually checking for example Um we did i think i did an email for Like one of our recent podcasts and you Know I did an email and there was a thousand Three hundred views that were generated From From that one email for example it’s Like it’s nice you’re able to generate Some traffic right away And that helps so that’s i would say Moderate help like it’s probably not Worth running a whole process just for The ability to generate traffic but it’s Nice to have Um another thing that we did when we Were Playing the email marketing pure 38 game Was we used the access to our email list As a trading currency to acquire other
Things And so a lot of these other things were Links right so So i’m thinking about when we were doing That on health ambition we would have That Weekly newsletter we would send on Sunday which was essentially an industry Roundup right it would share like Hours at least it start started off that Way as an industry right now And then it got to the point let me Explain what it was supposed to be Let me explain what it was supposed to Be then you explain where it actually Became okay Um essentially so the idea was to make An industry ground up you know send it A dozen links to our subscribers on Sundays and be like these are like 12 Articles you should check if you care About housing Pretty much and so the idea was that we Would essentially be able to trade Featuring people in that newsletter for Them linking to some of our content on House ambition And a lot of these bloggers etc would be Quite excited about that we had a pretty Big email list at the time And there was a great opportunity to Acquire links At pretty much zero cost and give Something that felt valuable
To people without it really costing us Very much uh on top right so that was The idea now what did it become Well it was it was so successful that The emails became just lists of people Who had linked to us Uh and we we had a backlog we had to Stop Saying we were going to do this because We had such a long backlog of Of people um this was sort of what 2015-16 when Uh yeah not many people were doing like Shotgun skyscraper mass outreach so it Was Unique yeah i don’t think you would get Those same numbers or that same uptake Uh these days although it’s still a good Cur good Piece of value that you can trade for Someone like if you don’t want to buy Links you can’t afford Links or or just you know to get your Foot in the door kind of thing Um so it’s definitely something worth Worth considering just Be careful it doesn’t sort of dissolve Into a You know massive spam fest or just a List of um Shitty sites that that are linking to You it was a different time We literally didn’t teach anyone shotgun Skyscraper at the time and we were using
It heavily we were getting like You know i remember our cosplaying for Like four bucks or something no i don’t Know like That every time every time you say this Number like it comes down How much was it yeah [Music] Someone posted on like a facebook group Like they they actually broke down the Numbers you you did when you You you said it like there’s no way this Could be can be accurate And i had to like spend like two hours Going in explaining how Gail had like okay so fix that so just Fix that and how much was it How much was it There was one campaign when it was Twelve dollars a link but that was That was not representative of the Average how many how many links for Twelve dollars Uh to give a scale a couple dozen or so Okay so now and then average how much Would you say that let’s just fix this One’s for less than four you know like How much was it On average like over a year let’s say i I i don’t know but it was Between 20 and 40 dollars caught okay Okay so let’s fix that record finally i Made that mistake four times fixed I i’m pretty sure i heard that i’m
Pretty sure i heard that at some point But it’s like It’s very possible that i made a mistake So i’m admitting I’m pretty sure i heard that but never Mind nobody’s gonna Check that but anyway 20 to 40 dollars Let’s just code this number in the Future Um so it was still very much cheaper Than it would be today like when we run Campaigns now it tends to Even in resources cost us a lot more to Buildings right yeah um So as a result we get a much higher Success rate and as a result Uh yeah it would just essentially flood The the weekly newsletter It’s like yeah it worked and and we got Links For that without paying a dollar and That was nice Um so that’s one thing you can do is With that with that email list And obviously the last thing you can do Is promo Uh affiliate offers and essentially try To sell stuff to people Um it’s not worth it for low paying Offers right Sorry so i mean this is the main reason Why an affiliate site would would want To do this Uh and and i don’t think that anyone
Should be giving up their day job of Writing reviews or commercial content to Because there’s loads of money in Affiliate uh affiliate marketing By email it’s very much like a Supplementary thing to What you’re what you would be doing on a Standard affiliate site Uh so just like think of it in in those Terms as something else you can do to Make some extra money rather than Replace The core of of voice it’s a Supplementary source of income And you know it really depends on the Size of your list and how engaged They are with it i remember we did some Promos to products that paid like Five dollars or ten dollars um in In commission which yeah i guess to be Fair that’s that’s Not super low i mean if we’re talking About a three dollar amazon product that Pays one percent then that’s Obviously not going to be worth it yeah Anyway but anything which you can make Like five ten dollars or more from from A conversion Then it can potentially work in in email You don’t really need that many people To convert to start The for the numbers to start making Sense if you can get products which are Paying you
You know thirty forty dollars plus in Commission so we’re thinking of uh Either very high commission stuff Uh or very high priced stuff uh like Think of Info product courses and things like That then the numbers Really can start to make a lot of sweat A lot of sense Quite quickly yeah i mean that’s one Thing with email as well i was like Um don’t expect that you’re always going To make like A ton of money per email but you can Send a lot of emails like i remember Like i would run emails like you know Some emails would make like 200 bucks 300 bucks like It’s not like we were making like Massive bank etc but we would run one of Like one of these emails every two or Three days And at the end of the month it was quite A bit of money pretty much so it’s like There’s very much an effect of like You could be sending a lot of emails That make you some money but not crazy Money and then eventually adds up to be Quite good money Um but i still agree that seo is still a Better way to make affiliate income I think it’s it’s more of a Supplementary source of income as an Affiliate
Then it is uh your main way of Monetizing and that’s why You know there’s way more affiliate Sites that try to get google traffic Than affiliates that try to do email Marketing right it’s like Probably because it’s it’s more valuable But obviously as seo becomes more Competitive Uh it’s quite interesting and most Importantly when you run that kind of Site You could be running lead generations or Capturing emails On your content unlike info content you Know on the content that doesn’t do the Reviews et cetera and so maybe you did That info content to capture email to Capture links first of all you wanted to Do it for link building skyscraper Etc and then once you’re done then you Can use that as a legion thing and then Monetize that content through Your email list and affiliate offers etc But i think it’s important to put things In context and not coming and be like This is going to be the Number one amazing solution that’s going To solve all your problems I think seo is still a better money Maker Uh to this day in most niches another Way of thinking of it though is If you let’s say you buy a website and
It’s already doing kind of Decent on on seo or any any seo work you Might be thinking of doing link building Stuff might take a little while to kick In or to Have an effect if you want to like show Some relatively Short term upwards upward traction or Gains or you know if you’re thinking of Selling a site As well you want to you know pump your Uh revenue so that you can Get a higher um higher sale figure Especially Then you know you add 500 a month in In revenue to your uh by by doing this And you’re thinking i’m thinking of Selling it next year or the end of the Year then that could That could increase your um [Music] I’m having to do some math in my head Real quickly but it’s just not working So i don’t know what’s what’s 530 to 40. Get the calculator out It’s 150 gram okay no way Oh 15 grams 15 grams 15 grams i just added one zero as i Always do apparently so there you go So so it’s fine so you know There’s a good like fifty fifteen Thousand dollars like you know For for what is not a difficult thing to Do and you don’t need any more traffic
Um potentially worth it you know yeah Yeah I i i agree it’s it’s it’s nice but also You know you mentioned the seo work Usually when you do seo work You do seo for companies that sell Products uh all Half products etc and then it’s it’s Kind of like a different category emails Become A much better source of traffic when you Have your own products you tend to have Higher conversion rates when you sell Products on your own site Versus when you sell products on other People’s sites and in general just the Relationship is quite different and like We could really feel the effect When we were selling out and stuff even When it was crappy remember like when we Would be selling like crappy Ebooks etc um and then we would be comp Like For example we’d be sending traffic to a Crappy ebook of ours Or we’d be sending traffic to you know a Clickbank offer that is Quite heavily tested at the time and was Really popular and was making tens of Thousands of dollars per day And we would make around the same Revenue in the end you know even though They were Very likely much more optimized they did
Much better testing they had better copy They had better everything better Checkout We would still like it it would quickly Compare in numbers even though we were Not as optimized on the sales process Itself so Two reasons for that which you you Alluded to so one is it’s because it’s Your own product and the people Following you On your email list care about you They’re invested in you they Trust you more than some other brand That you’re mentioning for the first Time So that’s one thing and two is you don’t Have to pay affiliates commission you Keep All of the profit all of the money and Thus yeah you can Make more money from each sale in in That sense That’s when yeah that’s why when you Have your own product like email is a Very important source of traffic much More than it is when you play as an Affiliate so You know even for the affiliates that Consider email like yes you can make Decent money with like it’s a good side Income um but Really when you start becoming quite Serious about email you should also be
Coming qui Start becoming quite serious about Making your own products because that’s When you’re going to essentially unleash The full potential of email marketing And this is this is so important though Because this is what happened to us like We started doing Email marketing to sell products as an Affiliate we realized there was money And then because we had the potential to Sell our own products to our existing by That point Email list it was such an easy thing to Just say okay well let’s now start doing Our own products and All we have to do is change the product We’re recommending in this this email More or less and we can we can make Money a big problem with people getting Into info products Especially in info products when they’re Trying to sell them is They spend all this time making the Product but they’re like all right how Do i make sales how do i Sell and you know email is one of or If not the biggest channel to to do that So if you’re building this Infrastructure And capability then by by Promoting affiliates and it’s easy to Make that switch I don’t think it’s the biggest channel
Anymore but it’s a good channel Um it’s i think as our bigger channel Now even retargeting tends to No way i i disagree so you there are Many products out there that have Very successful cold traffic ad Campaigns but for Someone getting into info products for The first time they’re very Happy to get started because they’re Very unlikely to make those Those work it’s very difficult and There’s very few products can Can do when it does work it’s hyper Hyper successful I was more saying like my argument later Is that Email is often probably the highest Return on investment because it’s quite Cheap to run And then you essentially don’t pay very Much for yourself Um but i think with retargeting you can Make more volume of sales where it’s Going to cost you more per cell Um just you tend to be able to send more Traffic back to your site Than email will at this point but when We run retargeting side by side with Email we send Very often three to four times more Traffic with retargeting then we send With email But the cost of a server is retargeting
Will be let’s say 200 bucks Whereas the cost of a sale with email is Going to be 30 bucks you know Yeah so the highest return investment is Are very often email But the highest volume of cells is often Retargeting ads etc um but Not that we are mistaken let’s just talk About this um The problem with retargeting and ads etc Is that You need in many niches um Facebook google et cetera are quite Picky on what you can display on your Ads right and it’s like you can’t Make promises you can’t uh if you’re Selling diets you can put before and After photos You can’t you know a lot of things that They’re going to be constraining on your Landing page as well you cannot put any Claims For us your marketing is very Constrained you know for us a good Example is with an authority hacker like We have a ton of students who we’ve done Like Actual video interviews with on our set For all these are on our sales page Where like You know this person sold their site for A lot of money or they’ve made x amount And they Talk specific about those numbers but we
Have to edit all of that stuff out and Cut it from the landing pages when we Want to advertise Uh on on facebook because they don’t Allow any of that stuff it’s too Like make money online false promise Kind of thing Um for them yeah which is you know their Decision but for many other niches too You know for many many many other niches Like if you like if you Walk in real estate you need to be Careful as well on like making retail Investment Projection figures and if you’re working In finance a lot of restrictions will be Here if you’re working in health There’s a ton of restrictions too um you Know we have these friends who like have These kind of like Like sexual awakening type courses etc They can’t do anything on us et cetera So email People using email is a great place People who are in crypto as well at the Moment i think Facebook ban all of crypto advertising Yeah so and these are these are big Money issues right these are niches Where There’s a lot of money and the thing With email is you are I mean there’s a little bit of Censorship with the spam filters of like
Gmail and hotmail etc like if you’re Really really really spammy they will Block you but it’s pretty lenient Compared To ad platforms etc so it’s uh it’s one Of these It’s one of these places where you are You can have pretty Strong marketing with very few limits Compared to paid traffic so that’s That’s why i was like okay pay traffic Drives more traffic but it’s actually More constraining and you can lose Everything overnight you can Get banned overnight et cetera email you Can get done by your Provider but you know you probably can Take a backup of your list and upload it To another provider and just Keep going with that so it also feels so Bad Also you don’t have to play the the Google the seo Game when you’re writing your your email Content you can Yeah kind of like where you want to vlog Traditionally and like just here’s what I’m thinking about kind of thing because You don’t have to worry about We’ll talk about that and all that We’ll talk about like what to put in the Email a little bit later but yeah Basically yeah but like i want to go Back to like what people should do if
They have work so yeah it’s one of the Best hourly traffic channel Um it’s like it feels like running sales To your List like you could just like make a Broadcast sell like just put a 20 Off on your product and email your list And it feels like Kind of like money on tap is very Controlled compared to seo or you’re Just waiting You just hope that you get the traffic From google et cetera here you just like Set that cell You send the email and then provided Your offer Has proven to have a degree of Conversion you will make sales And so it’s it’s very it’s it’s nice to Have a little bit of predictability In in what you can do and you feel that Really what you’re doing today will Impact your Money the money you’re making today and It’s uh It feels nice compared to running seo as Well so it’s It’s quite strong that it’s like it Gives you more control over let’s say Your cash flow Uh and i quite like it as well um the Thing i like about email for people who Have products as well is obviously You might be and if you’re talking about
As well or even seo right people might Visit your site once And when they opt in you can market to Them multiple times you can email them Multiple times and And very often sales for like higher Priced products Do happen over multiple emails it’s not Just like you send one email only by It’s like you need to send an email a Day for a week or 10 days or something Like this and You know hit them through different Angles and it’s not like people read Every single email as well right they Read you know like 15 percent of your list is going to read One email and then another 15 Percent is gonna read another one etc And then some of them will Open it but not read it and then read The next one etc so you’re able to do That and you’re able to do that for Cheap Because you you know the email tools are Not that expensive compared to paying For ads Compared to getting traffic through seo Pretty much um And if you have products one thing that A lot of people like to do with an email List is Running a tripwire strategy where they Essentially create
Very cheap products that they market to Their email list so Uh the guys who are really strong at This i’m not really following their Sales funnel anymore but digital Marketer was really strong at this Where they make you know like seven Dollar courses or they make like paid Webinars and things like that uh it cost Like you know Between seven and 30 bucks let’s say and Then And then they would essentially build Their buyers email list from that And then from that after that they would Have a different marketing sequence to The people who spend money versus the People who don’t spend money Go don’t spend money keep getting Marketed the cheap stuff and people who Spend money get marketed more expensive Products and Building this kind of strategy on an Authority site can make you quite a lot Of money we’ve done it as well we’ve Mentioned Last week i mean last podcast that we Did on that topic we mentioned this um Opt-in pop-up mastery and w leads that Was exactly that it worked really well So yeah it’s quite powerful to be honest Um Yeah that’s all i have to say on people Who have products and how viable is
Email anything else you want to add to This No all right so go ahead on like why People should email to people what People should say And then i’ll probably finish on that Section yeah so there’s there’s Three types of of email or the way of Thinking of how you categorize these At the start you’ll need some kind of Introduction introductory email Um digital marketer i think called this The indoctrination Sequence i don’t really like that that Term it sounds too kind of uh You know controlly but uh yeah You gotta realize it sounds like a cult You know yeah yeah You you gotta realize that when Someone’s signing up to The authority hacker email list they’re Most likely Signing up to get something like a lead Magnet or whatever that we’re offering Um but the reason they’re gonna stay is Not because the authority hacker brand Is Is awesome like the the fact that it’s a Unless you’re a big company like Nike or you know ibm or something people Aren’t really following Your company as a brand as such they’re Following the person behind it so in In our case mark and gail so it’s really
Important to like put yourself Out there with this argument for a while About like putting our photos On there and like you know our our old Office and like here’s here’s our story Here’s our We have it actually we do now yeah but i Don’t think we did it Initially but i have a question for you Actually we did this You know you know we did this also for Helen sanders on health ambition Yeah how do you feel about this looking Back now It’s pretty bad to be honest i’m not Gonna lie okay Okay yeah we made up a background story For our personal father website pretty Much yeah so That that was yeah that wasn’t our best That wouldn’t be uh that wasn’t our best Walk let’s just say that um It’s real though yeah uh Either way you know if you guys Listening want to do something like that That’s fine but Introduce yourself or whoever is is kind Of representing the the website and Um like share your kind of backstory and Stuff just be careful not to Make it too much show about me me me me Have have that introduction And then get to the good stuff and the Majority of the emails you’re gonna be
Sending people are either Some kind of value or some kind of offer A value email can be Really anything some kind of content Which is Free and useful to them it can be uh Straight up a link to a blog post that You already have most Most websites have um a few like Evergreenish it’s like stuff that Doesn’t doesn’t change um Very often um blog posts like pillar Articles that That they can link to so if you have Some like really high quality stuff then You know that’s a good way of getting People Exposure to like a lot of your best free Content and As they do that they’ll you know fall in Love with your brand and think oh they They’re awesome it’s not just that you Know we don’t just do that right You know that when we send content to People we actually tag them by interest Right so I’ll take the example of a toy hacker But we did that on other sites too And it’s like you know people click on An article about Shotgun skyscraper then they get they Get tagged link building and they get a Call in link building and if they click On another link building
Article after they get you know two Unique buildings three link building et Cetera and essentially we tag people’s Interest based on the content we sent to Them It allows us to uh send them offers that Are relevant to what they care about And not but like email marketing is a Good example right A typical other topic that like some of Our audience is really happy that we’re Covering And then maybe a good chunk it also Doesn’t care at all Like i just want to write affiliate Reviews leave me alone let me write my Reviews and rank in google you know Um and so it’s one of these things where When you tag people you’re able to Maybe promote that content to these People or maybe promote it to everyone But then the people who interact With it then maybe we don’t have an Offer for that if we had an offer on Like You know how to build your list and we Had a mini course on that then i would Probably Promote that to the people who Interacted with the email that promoted This podcast for example and that’s why That’s a really cool way to know what People want By giving them value and then after that
Selling them what matches Uh their interest that they’ve displayed Through their interaction It’s really cool but the reality is like We hardly ever use it and most people Who have contact scoring and advanced Setups like this hardly ever use it or Find that most people Fall into like one or two buckets uh for The kind of things they’re interested Yeah You don’t want to make it too Complicated when you’re starting off With email marketing Um you’ll we’ll talk about the tools a Little bit later but A lot of these tools active campaigns The worst for it they have So many like crazy advanced features That you can like you know read people’s Minds and all sorts of crazy stuff like That I mean i wish but uh they’re really not Far far off it But don’t get sucked into thinking you Need to build all of this tech out when You you start with Like one opt-in one single autoresponder One single path one single product or Multiple products like In in order uh is is enough like you i Wouldn’t recommend doing Stuff um at the end of the beginning at Least
I agree it depends it depends on what You’re selling right if let’s say We if we were working with like an Established company Let’s say we’re working with like a pet Food company or whatever right we’re Just like Imagine they have like cat food dog food Turtle food Then i would send blog posts about each Type of pet and then based on what People interact with i would probably Send At least special offers based on what They’ve been interacting with you know So it’s like it really depends What you’re doing here but if you’re Doing like simple info product funnels For example Then you don’t have to go too deep on That usually and it’s better to just Mass blast your list and sell The same thing to everyone to be honest I think most Most people have trouble in sustaining Content for one email list and if you Start Segmenting it into having like multiple Channels and um Cats dogs you cannot you know The amount of content you need to create For the for that Is two three times higher uh so yeah it Starts low and then and then work work
Up to that kind of stuff but Getting back to the the types of of Value Uh emails you can say you can literally Just send people to a blog post and say You know here’s Here’s a few facts about it to get kind Of get people’s interests Interested in it and then here’s a Here’s a link to the blog post um What you can also do is you can take a Summary or sometimes even all of a blog Post and actually just put that in the Email Uh so ramit sethi who’s one of the Larger i’d say info product Um email marketing type Type people who who has a lot of success With this this stuff Um that’s what he does and the majority Of of his his content is just In the in the email that he’s sending to People so It stops that way it stops people having To click on the link And then go to your site and although You you kind of like Can get sometimes it’ll have to be less Content in the email Itself that can be better because you’re Losing fewer people When they’re clicking through because Half the people or more are not going to Go not going to click i’m not
A fan of this i’ve tested was it’s funny I’ve tested we’ve done like Content emails recently and i’ve i’ve Deliberately done like one week shot one Week long you know one week really short And one week like really long uh the Amount like When we promote a piece of content we Still put a call to action even in the Long run The long one if i remember got between 200 and 300 clicks And then the short one got between 1 200 And 1 300 clicks i’m not so i’m not talking About uh clicks though I’m i’m not talking about probably i Know i’m having a link Because when people click what i do is i Use the pop-up call to actions to even Re-trigger them On the people who go on the website and Pretty much The more clicks we get in general the More sales bumps we get A couple days later as people go through Whatever funnel triggers When people click through so monetarily For us Right now uh it’s working better to do Short emails With a really strong call to action have Them click and when they go on the Website it triggers
Whatever offer we’re putting on that Site and that generates sales through People going through like the funnel Again or whatever for example So i i’m sure both can work but i’m Telling you what’s working for us right Now I think there’s a there’s an element of What your Audience is kind of used to in your Email list so If you’ve always done that and then you Start sending these like super long Emails Maybe they’re not the type of people That are going to read about it because Those types of people aren’t subscribed To your email list anymore Uh so i don’t know selection bias Whatever yeah maybe i Know i think both can work i think you Can do both to be honest it’s just It’s different strategy it’s really it’s Just different It’s just like i don’t think this i Don’t think ramin said he doesn’t even Bother that much with a ceo et cetera Like he doesn’t try to make To build a site in a way that he Generates traffic for him he just Probably does paid an affiliate no he Doesn’t he doesn’t He doesn’t have an affiliate program he Doesn’t do any ads um he only does
Seo and uh email he has his book i guess He has his book i guess that’s how he Gets all the A lot of subscribers when you don’t have A new york time Bestseller book or something then For me it works better i mean they they Do all right in seo There they have two sites okay fine uh Anything else on the emails like you Have the value and then what yeah so You generally have either a value email Like that which is usually some kind of Content Uh or an offer where you’re trying to Pitch them a product Could be your own product could be Someone else’s product could Also be something like hey i found this Dis this thing’s on sale so That’s a um that’s kind of a piece of Value that you’re Offering someone that’s still somewhat Commercial but generally It’s like hey there’s this product that Exists you might not know about it or It’s on on sale this weekend or it’s Really good here’s why You should buy it here’s a link to to Buy it And it can just be a straight up Affiliate link um Uh if you’re if you’re promoting another Product although not to amazon because
You can’t Promote you can’t do that in uh put Amazon links in in emails uh And it really doesn’t need to be Massively complicated just Hey here’s this product it’s it’s really Cool here’s some things i like about it And if people are engaged in your email List then They will listen to you and a percentage Of them will will buy that product Yeah what would you say to people who Ask what ratio of like Value content against commercial content Should you do I think it depends on What how you train your audience to And what to expect uh there was a really Good case i Forget exactly who it was but he he had Only ever done value content in his Email had like Tens of thousands of subscribers and Then one time He sent them uh it was either an Affiliate offer or a pitch for some kind Of product And there was like mass revolt people Were like oh my god i can’t I can’t believe this um because he’d Gone for years without doing that so He’d set the expectation about this is What This is what this email list is and then
He did something else and people didn’t Like it So if you’re opening up front and tell People like You know in the first email like i’m Gonna send you Valuable content i mean sometimes i’m Gonna pitch you products or offers that I think might interest you Then and you actually do that from a Relatively early stage then I don’t see i don’t see a problem so you Can you can go Much more commercial in that sense and To go back to our friend ramit sethi Uh you could argue that 100 of his Emails are Are commercial because the way he Structures his funnel it’s like It’s a launch a launch a launch alarm It’s all evergreen but it’s like Uh each each product launch has maybe Like three or four value emails about The topic Uh saying that hey this this product is Coming Yeah and then it’s the product itself so You can kind of classify those as Maybe summer or value summer or Commercial but they’re all Part of one one campaign that makes Sense you know in my notes i had uh i Had longer emails drive Engagement and shorter emails drive
Traffic that’s what i had actually Yeah and that’s how i would do that so We do long emails too for example like In our sales sequence we do long emails Even though short emails drive more Traffic because It’s like i don’t need necessary people To click on that email because they’re Like on a 10-day sequence or something So it’s like i don’t mind if they don’t Click at the bottom i’d rather they get Exposed to the marketing And then by the end the last few emails Tend to be shorter So that we get drive more clicks to People that have been more warmed up Through the marketing Content pretty much as for the question Of like Commercial versus uh value I mean i’m telling you probably 99 of People who listen to this podcast will Lead More like will lean too much towards Providing value and too little towards Monetizing Yeah like this industry is very much Like that but like you know when you Sign up to an email list for Any e-commerce store what emails do you Receive Every single email is selling you Products and like if you open your Promotion tab in your email like
Pretty much every email selling you Stuff and you’re completely fine with That Your email is a place where people sell You stuff you shouldn’t feel bad about It Uh and i have no remorse sending three Or four commercial emails in a row if i Have to I will send a value email you know when I have something interesting to say but Don’t feel bad selling stuff even Businesses people love like appsumo for Example a lot of people on Appsumo’s list and then app stream was Every email they sell you stuff right And it doesn’t mean you hate them just Again it’s execution if it’s done poorly If it’s written with like no commas like The way i write etc Then it might be but if you if you Do just like the the products you’re Promoting are and like you’re just doing it to Make an affiliate commission because They are paying you the highest People are going to see through that Really quickly and yeah This isn’t the the seo game where they Become your site once and Click or they don’t click if you’re Following you for a period of time like You really need to Build trust with them and that means
Being genuine in the the products you’re Recommending yeah but overall i think The message to people who Listen and knowing our audience is going To be don’t be afraid to sell to people And be fairly aggressive in when you Sell on email That’s the place to sell to sell hard And to sell Higher priced products and that’s how You make money from email so And there’s no ratio i would also add to That is a lot of people get very Concerned when they send a sales email And they get Zero point five percent of one game Unsubscribing Uh that that’s like totally normal Whatever email you send you’ll get People unsubscribing you’ll get Probably a few more people when you uh Send them commercial stuff but If you’re sending them offers and They’re they’re not buying their Unsubscribed those people were never Going to buy stuff from from you anyway So like the value In your list is the people who are going To buy One of your products or someone else’s Products so you have to focus on Doing what what they want and giving Them the stuff that that Segment wants that’s how you make money
Yeah yeah It happens like can you have emails like Usually the You know what is the number one Correlated stats with unsubscribe Well open rate um it’s like It’s basically like the more open you so The better your subject line the more Unsubscribes you get Regardless of what you say in your email Right the more attracts attention The more you get unsubscribed so for us It’s pretty much every time we get a High open rate we get a height and Subscribe rate and Usually when you get low and subscribe It means people didn’t even notice our Email So high-end subscriber rate is not that Bad uh It often means you made a good email It’s just that there’s always a Percentage of lists that would Unsubscribe for example The last email we did to the htc i’m Looking at now we did 20 Open rate which is pretty good and 0.36 Of the list 0.76 of the list unsubscribed uh so that Was Quite a few subscribers for us uh and That was a very high unsubscribe rate Usually we’re around 0.2 maybe something Like this 0.18
Um but that’s because the open rate was Really good and because i cleaned the List Then the percentage is higher because The people who never opened also never Unsubscribed And so yeah basically don’t feel bad About people unsubscribing And and also don’t feel bad when you Sell something and then that one person Replies and gets really pissed off Like usually you have an email list with Like hundreds or thousands of people That don’t mind or buy stuff And you get that one person that gets Really pissed off and like really tries To make you feel bad about Trying to sell something or making some Money with your website or your email List Uh yeah it’s gonna happen and Fine it’s like i don’t don’t worry about It it happens like we Our support staff i’m looking at it on Stack number our simple stuff literally Just like shares The the screenshots of the emails of People insulting us when we send an Email or something like that that Happens every time it doesn’t mean even If they report your spam You’ll be fine like as long as it’s not Most of your lists you’ll be okay Um anything else to add to all of this
Oh yeah writing tactics right yeah so Just a few writing tactics i want to Want to share with you guys Um there’s this concept called open Loops which is really important Uh with email marketing because you’re Sending Emails over a period of time and you’re Expecting people to Check the next one uh you really want to Be getting them to engage with With all your emails so if you kind of Silo all your content so you you give Them everything they need to know about Topic a and this one and then then Tomorrow is something completely Different And there’s no reference to the last Email then uh It’s much easier for them to to drop off Or disengage whereas if you’re saying Something Today and then you you might say Be talking about a topic and say oh but You know more of that tomorrow or I’ll tell you about that next wednesday Or something you can open this Loop uh they they do that a lot in like Tv shows and series uh To get you to watch like the next Episode of the next season like that’s Cliffhanger and all that kind of thing Uh so use those tactics to to keep People engaged
That’s one thing uh i would also say That the The level the standard of writing is Much more casual In in email like the the way you write Your emails Gail i think it’s quite good for this I’ve seen a lot of a lot of people Have this massive like wall of text Which just doesn’t work in an email Especially A lot of people are reading on their Phone so it’s like narrow screens and All that stuff Just write short snappy sentences not Wordy paragraphs I’d also say make it about them Not about you so we talked a little bit About this when we mentioned The introduction you obviously need to Describe who you are and what you do and That stuff but All the content should be around the Topic you’re talking Talking about and how can your Subscriber how can your reader get value From this or implement This or or or do something with this Make it about them not about you so use The word You and your and stuff those kinds of Terminology in your Emails when you’re you’re writing them Because people will think oh that’s
About me people are very interested in Themselves you’ll see this a lot when You Write emails for this stuff um Yeah make it actionable as well Obviously Really important and then this is kind Of interesting because We mentioned the the the pop-up podcast We did Two weeks ago and how the numbers from Our podcast Were not that great but the feedback and Comments and stuff was Really really great you’ll find that Whatever topic your Your website your list is about there Will be certain subtopics that just People Love and can’t get enough of for us it’s It’s link building It’s a big thing people people love it And anytime we do something on link Building it tends to do Really really well i think building Picky niche that’s the main topics Really like What people want yeah so you can you Obviously want to Direct the majority of your efforts in That way when you’re you’re doing your Marketing so pay attention to these These signals and create content create Products around
Around that for your your email Marketing and the last thing i’ll say Is that scarcity sells so If you have a product or an offer which Is going away In some way price increase it’s only Launched for a limited period of time The discount’s expiring Bonus is expiring uh things like that People react Much more strongly than if they can just Go to your website and buy at any time Because This is the normal price like if there’s A special deal or a special occasion Uh for why they they should buy this now Then they tend to to react much better To that Yeah i’m not i’m not a fan personally of This way of selling but You can’t trump the numbers it’s just Like it works too well to ignore it and It’s like Yeah like if you put a giant countdown Above an offer Even if you’re if your copy is it’s It’s still going to beat a Really well written page without a Countdown it’s kind of how it works And a lot of businesses use that Economist etcetera as well so Well it is what it is another type of Email that actually you haven’t Mentioned that i wanted to
Highlight is question emails Uh i don’t if you remember when we just Started it’s like Uh we just emailed to our email it’s Like how can we help you and then we Just got a bunch of replies from people People reply to these kind of emails if You make It look like you just email a friend It’s like hey how can we help you Like are you still looking to you know Toriyaka i’d be like are you still Looking to be on the toilet site for Example i would just email that to the List And then why would that allow us to do Is essentially first of all get really A lot of insight into what people want Into what the audience wants Um but most importantly is going to Allow us to also highlight people who Would buy our product or well Like i could just essentially advise People one by one but actually make Sales if i wanted i think that’s Especially powerful If you’re selling like a service like if I was Empire flippers for example i would run That on my list I’d be like uh uh have you bought a site Yet or have you sold your site yet And then let people reply and then and Then essentially just like contact that
Like put that with my sales rep or put That with my support or something and Then I’m telling you they would make a lot of Money right away from that so someone Tweet them this part of the podcast if You want and if they make a lot of money I’m expecting A really nice pair of socks or something Like this you know Um but yeah so that that would be like One type of email that’s like it’s not Something you want to do very often but You will be so surprised at how much People reply and people like you write a Really short question and they write you Like a giant paragraph etc and you get a Big insight into what your audience Wants And it’s quite uh it’s quite powerful i Think we should even Like look at doing this again at some Point i’m just afraid with the size of Our list Now that it’s just going to be Unmanageable um but this is a really Good tactic Early on because if you have fewer People responding so you can actually Take the time to respond to everyone and Get to know people a little bit better And that builds a really Highly engaged list yeah um How often would you email your list so
This is and this is another it depends Uh answer i’m sorry let me clarify Like what i mean here um i think You have to email them regularly like Minimum once a week Maybe even twice a week really i know we Don’t do that at the moment But we we totally should uh i remember Speaking to greg from empire flippers About uh email marketing and disengaged Lists and all this stuff And said that a lot there’s a lot of People who have sites Who have email lists who think that oh i Have this email list therefore there’s a Lot of value in that So i should be able to sell my site for More but unless you’re Engaging and monetizing that email list It’s Essentially worthless or almost Worthless Because a disengaged list that you’ve You you never email like If we went to health ambition right now Who we haven’t emailed in Probably three years or something now And emailed that list You know no one would remember us people Were like why who are you why are you Emailing me Go away kind of thing uh so you have to Be Constantly i’ll be a good youtube video
Though yeah maybe you should try I emailed my three years old list here Is what happened dot dot dot Wow if you want to but i i i think That you need to be emailing people Every week uh On the flip side of that is a lot of People are saying well we’ll ask well Is there how much is too much i think if You’re doing more than once a day Unless you’re in a the last day of a Sale or The first day when they sign up maybe They get a couple emails Then once a day is probably the the most So somewhere between once a week and Once a week twice a week and what once a Day is is what you should be Should be going for uh personally i Don’t like to email people too much so You know two three times a week would be Optimum i think I’m i’m not gonna quote who it is but we Have a friend who’s really good at email Marketing right now And uh he emails at least once a day Sometimes even more Uh and he’s killing it he’s doing really Well uh selling his own products as well Etc And yeah it’s one of these things you Know when i mentioned like people are Gonna be under aggressive etc uh That listen to this podcast it’s like i
See these guys I see how much they’re racking in the Bank just like taking all the money from The table and just like Laughing all the way to the bank and It’s like they email aggressively Um like one time they would be like Average but like they’re always days With the email twice as well That’s that’s the thing though as a Business when you look at this You know let’s say in a year you send 50 Emails Uh if you increase the number of emails You send in the next year you’re Almost guaranteed to make more money uh So And every time you run that calculation You can you could almost keep Keep pushing it there will be like a a Limit i’m sure if you’re sending Multiple emails every day for a year Then You probably push it a bit too much but The number is much higher than you you Think Yeah uh much more than most people would Expect like most people I i expect most people in this podcast And tell us in the chat if you’re in Premiere But my expectation would be most people Would aim for like once a week or Something
Um and you can go much higher than that When we are like on quiet time on the Toy hacker we barely even do that But when we are on proper sales time we Actually You know like for example our sales Sequence on the te haka it’s not 24 Hours between emails it’s 20 hours Actually Um so it’s actually more than once a day If you want if you want an example of a Sales sequence Uh that emails more than once a day when You just join in the first funnel on Auto Yeah the time lapse the time between two Emails is between 20 and 22 hours Usually Sometimes 18 like it kind of varies but Um yeah So it it shows you it’s more than once a Day pretty much so Yeah here you go um let’s talk about Kind of like automating because we kind Of like talked about what to do in the Email And like when to email and all this Stuff but let’s talk about kind of like The framework people should follow To build up their email and you know Essentially build up that system right And so we’ve talked about types of Emails we’ve talked about when to email We’ve talked about
Um templates et cetera et cetera now Essentially you what you need to do is You need to use what’s called broadcast In your email tool um Essentially just like sending a Newsletter pretty much live Um and it’s going to be like when you Pick up affiliate programs right when You pick up affiliate programs outside Of amazon 80 ends up being crap and 20 ends up Working and that’s being Generous already email’s going to be Very much the same right you’re going to Be Sending emails and a lot of them are Going to flop even commercial emails you Make zero Happen to us many times um you know even Value emails people will ignore Completely not really care etc And well these emails they might as well Just be thrown away so you don’t want to Ever Use them etc however you know One every eight to ten emails you’ll Probably get something that does much Better than average and these emails you Would want to essentially Reuse them you will want as many people As possible why are you laughing Because you say essentially like way too Often I was just i started counting it i was
Like and you essentially do this and Then essentially you will do that so Essentially we’re gonna we’re gonna edit It out it’s fine Probably not but let’s see so Essentially No so it’s really hard to speak now Um but you want to create an automation That will send these emails To all the new subscribers so that Pretty much every new subscriber from The point when you’ve discovered that Email gets Exposed to it once at least so that you Get the maximum benefit from emails that Have been proven to work And so the way you’re going to structure This is people will opt into your email List And you will decide on an email Frequency so you know between one and Four times a week let’s say And then you will put one of these Successful emails Uh one after the other pretty much and After people are done with the Autoresponder you move them to a new Email list you can make an automation With your tools That’s going to be called your broadcast List and your broadcast this is the page Is the place where you will essentially Essentially keep sending um These next emails that you’re going to
Be testing so you will Try new offers you will try to send new Blog posts Try new value etc and uh every time this One that works go back to your Autoresponder add it When people fall off the autoresponder They are in your broadcast list and then The other place where you test The future emails that you put in your Autoresponder it’s a very simple process Don’t do anything else than that just do That and you could you know If you have if you email twice a week And then you Make a one-year autoresponder you can Put like 104 emails Into one of these autoresponders and Then after that people fall into Broadcast but like you will maximize Your lead value as you go because you Have put your best emails first to People Um it’s important maybe to put them in Sequence as well so like when you’re Promoting Like a high paying offer like if let’s Say you’re promoting uh online training Or you’re promoting an expensive Physical product or something I would not just send one email about it And go to the next thing as well i would Probably send like A series of three to four emails uh
Talking about that and if that’s Successful Then i would keep these three to four Emails together when i put them into my Autoresponder Not just put the one email that got Really high success and ignore the Others because usually people might have Been exposed to the other marketing and Decide to buy from this email And so that’s uh that’s quite important So when you do this essentially Make blocks of this maybe make a week of Emails Uh two to three emails and then just put Them in your autoresponder if it’s been Successful That’s the simple solution for that Would you would you agree with that Approach like Nothing more nothing less yeah that Works cool First time we agree in this podcast so It’s good um Um let’s talk about that yeah so let’s Talk about tools but can you do all that Stuff with all the tools Or some of them so so It’s basically two tools i’m gonna Recover mostly it’s for the people who Are just getting started i like miller Light Metal light is it’s not the absolute Cheapest but it’s cheap right it’s like
If you have A list of five thousand people it costs You 30 bucks a month So it’s it’s not too crazy in price but They Have pretty decent like automation Logic et cetera it’s kind of like active Campaign light you know So you can do these things and and it’s Not too expensive and they have a free Plan so if you want to get started with Email but you’re not sure Up to a thousand subscribers and 12 000 Emails per month it’s free actually So you can get started with that and It’s it’s big enough that It has integrations with you know like Thrive leads and opt-in monster and all The tools that you might want to use to To capture emails so you know there is Cheaper tools but sometimes they’re Liking the integrations with the tools You might want to use to build your Email list and so on And so i don’t like it so much metal Light is the compromise for me So that’s the one i recommend if you are Like a product owner if you have An e-commerce and you want deep E-commerce integration et cetera Uh i like um we like active campaign It has like even a woocommerce Integration you can use it as a crm etc It’s quite powerful
And you can do anything that any of the Most advanced emails tools can do so That’s pretty much the only two tools I’m going to recommend But i would say for 99 of people Listening to this podcast melee light is Going to be good enough If you don’t have like a big product Business And and and it’s not too expensive so Yes you can do these things with metal Light Uh it’s probably one of the refreshes That we’re going to be looking at this Year There is some of that on auto hacker pro Already but i think we can I’m gonna do it on uh i’ll have it on Active campaign but i want to also show It on melody So i might uh i might do that this year Actually So that’s i’m not gonna recommend more i Know there’s plenty but like you know a Lot of people recommend mailchimp for Example But mailchimp to my knowledge i didn’t Check recently but to my knowledge has a Anti-affiliate link policy so if you’re Doing effort it’s going to be Complicated And and the and the free plan is pretty Much similar to what the free plan on Mail light is
So you might as well just use metal Light i just want to add Active campaign also have an Anti-affiliate link um Thing as well but they don’t though it’s Uh Not enforced very very often i think if You’re If you’re doing a lot of like really Spammy stuff they’ll probably use that As the excuse to boot you off Um but yeah we did it with uh one of our Sites a while back for For quite a while and wasn’t really a Problem so i mean not spam we did Promote Affiliate offers with it only uh it Worked fine Yeah okay so that’s pretty much the only Tools i want to recommend i don’t want To make a big list mellow light if You’re on a cheap But good off option if you want the Super advanced stuff go for active Campaign All right to finish it up i i know you Guys like when we talk about advanced Tactics as well so if you’re doing mail Marketing already and you came to this Podcast You probably want to hear some tactics I’m going to give you some very simple Very practical tactics that we use that Get us better results with email
Marketing right The first one is a b testing your Subject line it’s very simple Most tools can i don’t know if melody Like camera but i think they can do that And you can essentially put two subject Lines Into your email tool and you let it Decide like for what they do is first They send the email one email to 10 of The List another one with the same email With another subject line to 10 Of the list look at the open rate or Click through rate depending on what we Choose And then two three four hours later they Send uh The rest uh of the list the winning Email and so it’s really simple we just Have to write two subject lines And we easily get you know like two to Five percent more open rate very often Without really trying very hard so i Recommend you do that It works really well for us and uh and It’s simple to do And i like these kind of tips where it’s Like not too much work uh The other tip that is not too much work That most tools have Is resending the same email with a Different subject line To the people who did not open the email
So let’s say I send an email to i sent an email about This podcast about like How to do advanced email marketing how To do my marketing And then 20 of the list opens it 80 of The list doesn’t open it After three days i go in activecampaign And i have this recent option And then i can write a new subject line And it’s going to resend that email only To the 80 Of people who did not open the email and The 20 of people who did open the email Didn’t will not receive that again And in the inbox it’s not going to look Like the same email twice because the Subject line is going to be different You would think that some people would Complain about this I’ve done it many times i i mean i’ve Never heard the support guys Tell me there was any complaint about it Ever So um it’s and usually we get 20 to 30 Percent more Opens and traffic when we do a resend With a different subject line So it’s pretty good um and it’s really Simple as well you just go in the active Campaign Or middle light rewrite a subject line Send done you know Um so that’s pretty much actually the
Only two advanced tactics i wanted to Share Any any anything else you want to share With people no Okay well we’re just gonna wrap it up Guys if you enjoyed it don’t forget to Subscribe on our youtube channel or on The podcast channels wherever you are Listening to your podcast And like the video and click the Notification bell if you haven’t done That on youtube and drop us a comment to Let us know if you want us to cover More funnel email marketing stuff etc or If you want us to go back to Seo uh we will do whatever people vote For so let us know in the comments and We will see you next week for Another episode of the podcast have a Good week You