Writing effective reviews and affiliate Content has traditionally been very Difficult for some writers on the web And often when you look for advice and Help on Web copywriting you find content geared More towards writing traditional sales Pages Or you’ll find advice can be rather Abstract and high level not very Actionable That’s why today i wanted to bring on an Actual writer who’s written Thousands of articles for affiliate Sites And get his take on what makes effective Content we’re going to go deep into how To write great content for your Affiliate site So if you want to learn how the pros do It then keep watching because this is The episode for you [Music] Kevin meng is a writer who’s written Over 3 000 Articles for affiliate sites he now runs A course Webcopymasterclass.com where he teaches Seos and e-commerce site owners how to Write copy for sales His goals are to bring copywriting into The seo world In a digestible and actionable way so Welcome to the show
Kevin how’s it going thanks for having Me it’s it’s going pretty well a little Bit cold here in northern vietnam But i’m doing all right good stuff so How about you i i am doing fantastic as As every single week of course right for Our audience watching this is actually The second time we record this we had a Little uh Technical issue the first time uh so Disaster i think that’s good I think that’s good for you as the Audience because it means we don’t have To talk about all the fluff and we can Just get straight to the actionable Stuff So exactly i’m going to ask you i’m Going to ask you first kevin Uh as a writer so someone on the other Side of the The coin to perhaps most of our audience And most of people listening or watching This The show how does it feel or how are you Treated by Site owners by seos and is there any Kind of insights you can you can Share so that site owners can maybe see What the other side of the coin looks Like It’s not uh the easiest thing in the World to do as a writer Uh i think in general like seos they Kind of
Their their brains are really analytical Right they’re not writers they think in A completely different way And um sadly the market is just seeing Content as a commodity right it’s a Cheap commodity Just to fill the pages and get the Keywords ranking in google And the price is pushed way down and so The people behind the The writing they become kind of Undervalued right they don’t uh A lot of times you don’t even know them Right you just pay an agency and uh you Know the agency just Ships you a bunch of articles you never Even see the person who wrote them You can’t even be sure it’s a human Being sometimes you know like so it’s uh It’s kind of it’s not easy because There’s a big disconnect Between the writer and the seo and it’s Not just the seo’s fault it’s It you know it’s both parties there’s a Huge disconnect between what the writer Wants which is like hey Respect my craft and pay me more and What the seo wants it’s like well You know i just want to get some Articles ranking this is not super Important to me right now so i’m going To keep the price low so It’s a delicate uh a delicate dance to Say the least
So what are some of the the things which Seos or site owners would do that would Really piss you off as a as a writer um Wow that’s a good question i think It’s just kind of not understanding that The biggest thing is just not Understanding the value of good content And not under or maybe not appreciating The value of good content They might just say something like um You know hey we don’t have the budget For this we want to go really low they Might try to cut your rate by 50 Or something like that they might uh Push you on the deadlines or something Like hey we Need this in two days and it’s like well I can’t write a quality 5000 word guide in two days you know i Want to be proud of what i do i need Time you need to You need to give me some some space to Work with some canvas to paint on So i think it’s just it all comes back Again to that disconnect between the way We think The yeah so what pisses me off the most Is just kind of not appreciating Writing for how valuable it is which is Understandable right because A lot of times in seo like the the Articles are not super important in the Beginning right you’d rather just be Ranking than having
A good uh a good article up there right So It’s it’s tough let’s just say that Yeah i always felt there was i always Felt that Seo has tended to treat writers more as Kind of robots or machines like they’ll Input the keyword The writer will go in and do some magic And output the The finished article that’s exactly it Man that’s exactly some of our sites As some of our sites have kind of grown Up a little bit I feel like in order to get really a Plus level content We have to engage with the writer a lot More we have to talk to them There’s a lot more feedback loops back And forth Uh i just like help in the the the Planning Um do you do you think that Seos are kind of getting better at doing That or is there still quite a big gap Between What they should be doing and and what They’re actually doing I think uh i think yeah i i think They’re getting a lot better at it just In general i’ve noticed that a lot more People i’m talking to You know they’re coming to me and They’re asking me hey i want to find a
Writer i’m willing to pay good money for It i know i need good content I’ve been i’ve been helping people doing A lot of like writer training or Some head hunting and just kind of Looking around vetting writers for Different seos and stuff like that and So they definitely are starting to to Really understand it but I think there’s still a long long way to Go it’s definitely better than it was Even just a couple years ago and Definitely better than when i started When i started it was just a nightmare You know And uh so now things are definitely Getting better uh people are Really starting to understand the value Of it especially as seo gets harder you Can’t just Slap some articles up there and hope for The best anymore they’ve really got to Be good So over time as a writer you’ve really Sort of honed in your your copywriting Your sales copy your Kind of review copy writing skills I think that’s quite evident in your in In your course how did that Come about did you start off doing that Kind of content or did you just kind of Fall into it how did it work No i mean i definitely didn’t start out Uh doing that it really just i don’t
Want to say by accident it just kind of Happened by like symbiosis right as i Started to advance more and more into Into the industry and and my career i Started out just as a You know content writer doing 500 word 400 word articles for some seos in like The local new york area Even though i was living in europe at The time they were just having me churn Out As many articles as i could do and like My gift is just being able to write Really fast but still do like Quality you know like i can churn out a Four thousand five thousand word article In a day That’s coherent and decent quality you Know and so I found work really quick luckily um From there just kind of started to Evolve i went to chiang mai i got Involved in the seo community I started doing a lot of affiliate Reviews for people i was really close With and i had a I had like a really um interesting Window into Into their business i could really see What was working what wasn’t working And i started to study copywriting just To kind of level up my career and i Realized it just kind of hit me one day As i was doing some sales pages it’s
Like wow an affiliate review is actually A sales page if you think about it like It’s not a sales page like a traditional Sales page But it’s like 70 of a sales page right Somebody types in Best computer under five hundred dollars That means they have five hundred Dollars in their hand and they’re Looking to buy a computer right So technically the review you’re giving Them is going to be built on the same Principles as a traditional sales page So it just kind of it all just started Seeping into my work i was like well hey What if i take this um You know this copywriting language or This positioning language and what if i Just put it into this affiliate review What if i um what if i take this like Benefits driven copy and use some Powerful language what if i change some Of these verbs To more powerful verbs and just plug it Into this Review let’s see what happens and then Boom you know you see it It’s like uh the spikes just go And um it really works you know i was I was both uh i was innovative there but I was also very Fortunate to have that kind of window Into Into the affiliate website’s uh
Conversion and stuff like that so That’s kind of how it came about so why Should Why should listeners listen to you uh Versus any other kind of copywriter like What what is it that kind of Gives you that x factor i always tell People that You don’t have to listen to me you don’t Have to take my word for it you can just Look at the data you know the numbers Don’t lie It’s uh it’s clear like um i’ve done This And i’ve actually seen because uh you Know i partnered up on some websites and Uh I i write the reviews and we split the Profits so i have like a I have a real vested interest in doing a Good job and The things that i’ve done have resulted In you know huge spikes in Clicks engagement conversions decreasing The bounce rate everything all across The board and i don’t want to oversell It It’s just that you know i’ve seen it Firsthand i’ve seen it work And i’m not really interested in Theories i’m a very practical person Like i don’t care about copywriting Theory i don’t care about writing theory I don’t care
About any about anything like that you Know it’s just i do what works and if it Doesn’t work i’m uh I’m level-headed enough to go like okay That didn’t work uh i was wrong let’s Try something else And when it works i keep doing it I think that’s been one of the the Difficulties i’ve had in In grasping the the copywriters world Because A lot of the people i talk to there They’re quite Abstract in their thinking whereas i’m a Very processed step-by-step orientated Person so i find it difficult to apply Some of the principles To the reality of writing an Affiliate review and i think that’s Something you do particularly well So that’s why i’m very excited that You’re we’re able to To finally get get you on again uh Thanks make this work today Um so let me ask you about uh Some of the problems that you see with Specific with affiliate content So if you put in a a keyword you know Product review or best product What are some of the common mistakes That you see Affiliate site owners do with their Content Yeah i can think of a few right off the
Top my head number one the biggest Mistake Is screwing up the intro it’s just uh It’s a huge pet peeve of mine it It just really makes me keeps me awake At night you know that kind of thing Where It’s just like okay you’ve got a Perfectly good affiliate review it’s Ranking number one For you know what’s going to be a pretty Lucrative product and they just totally Botch the intro you know like the the Intro is just The intro is where you hook the reader Right and if somebody there’s intent Behind every single search Your intro has to not only be aligned With the the awareness of the reader It also has to be aligned with the Intent of the reader So for example if you have um you know The 10 best hiking boots for beginners Your intro should not be introducing the Topic of hiking It should not be talking about being a Beginner hiker you know these are things That The reader is already well aware of what It should be about Is why the reader should buy something From you It should be about what makes your Review better which products are they
Gonna like the most what what bad things Are gonna happen if they don’t take your Advice that kind of stuff you need to Use emotion To hook them if you just say oh Hiking is a great activity and if you’re A beginner you might be looking for a Boot If you say something like that you have Totally totally Lost a chance at a sale and i’ve worked With clients where it’s i’ve literally Just changed The intro and they’ve seen huge Decreases in bounce rate and increases In sales because people are staying on The page Long enough to to you know look through And make a purchasing decision So that alone is just a huge win For anyone in the affiliate seo world That’s probably the biggest I think that i see i would say that’s One of my certainly pet peeves as as Well is Uh either just long fluffy intros where It feels like the writer has kind of Patted out the word Word content just because they have to Write an intro or Intros that don’t con consider the Search search intent My favorite example was uh one i was Looking for recently
Was how to install a bathroom extractor Fan and The the first sentence or the first Paragraph of the Of the article read a bathroom fan is a Device that extracts air from the Bathroom to reduce moisture and it’s Like Of course someone knows that at that Point yeah You’re you’re searching for this so i Think the intent is really important I i just feel like there’s so much fluff In in intros these days and people People are just patting out Too too much uh how would you say Someone can go about reducing That or or or getting being more direct So just one thing i really want to touch On quickly is that I think it’s all from our education System and Our our experience writing like essays In school you know where you have to Give the backstory Um you have to give the backstory on the Topic or have you ever gone to like you Know you’re doing like scientific Research and you go to library of Congress or whatever Or you know whatever the equivalent is In the uk and The abstract gives a lot of backstory on Something like so recently i had to do
Something about supplements and it was About weight loss with some Some kind of supplement and the study Had shown a correlation between Um this supplement and weight loss right But the abstract started out with Weight loss is a is a common you know a Desire amongst the population and the In the united states uh obesity is Rampant it’s like man we know all this Already Why do we have to why do we have to Spend the first 200 words of this This uh scientific paper talking about The problem right we’re already well Aware of this But it’s expected in academia right but This is This is web copy right this is web Writing and it in fact Like that’s detrimental it’s not helping It’s it’s doing the absolute opposite The way i always think about it is that Your intro Is there to convince the the reader to Stay And not go to one of the other tabs that They may have opened or hit back and go To the website one of the other Surf results it is there to convince Them To buy something that you are selling in Essence right which is a copywriting Concept
Meet the customer where they are meet The reader where they are if they’re If they’re looking for a thousand dollar Sofa And uh you your sales page starts with Talking about the need of a sofa Uh that’s it you’ve lost them you know It has to focus on what they’re looking For right meet them Where they are and that is the goal of The intro So how should seo site owners Go about writing intros for for Affiliate reviews like what What instruction should they be giving Their their writer I would say just to keep it easy um So with your intro you need to use Emotions to hook people you need to use Like trust Humor fear greed things like that But just to keep it easy i would just go With trust In every single affiliate review Um if i were doing it personally i would Probably mix it up depending on The topic but until you get that feel For it you really just need to keep it Easy and scalable right so i would just Make it make an sop or write it into Your sop or your outlines Intro 100 words or less use Trust to or instill trust in the reader To get them to purchase something that
We’ve reviewed And trust can be anything like hey we’ve Spent 40 hours on this or hey We reviewed 24 different models or Listen i’ve been in this business For 30 years i know or um it could be Something like it with a supplement um I i would used to write for a supplement Company and the owner would always just Say You know hey tell people we have Personal experience with this you know We take these supplements So be like hey are you looking for a Weight loss supplement well we’ve been On this for 60 days And we’re going to share with you all The experiences we’ve had over those 60 Days and You know this is not just some random Review where we’re peddling a product That we don’t use like we actually make This product We use it here’s our experiences that’s Really going to hook the reader and be Like okay I should trust this review i’m going to Read it So it’s interesting you you said did They actually Take the supplement or did they just in This case they did actually yeah because It was uh Because it was actually their product
Uh-huh Okay do you think that honesty and Truthfulness is is vital in in that Situation like i know The reality of the situation is most Seo writers will will maybe embellish Things a little bit when they’re They’re writing reviews what’s your am i Allowed uh am i allowed to plead the Fifth amendment uh on this No podcast i want to give i want to give No self uh incriminating evidence to This no i mean It’s it’s like look we’ve we’ve all done This every single person listening To this done this at some point so we Could i think we could be honest about It Yeah i mean i think that um that is up To you to make the decision If you want to do that and of course There there are a lot of different ways That you could actually tell the truth So a lot of the times with amazon Affiliate reviews i’m not really writing Too many of them anymore i just do it For For uh the sites that i’m partnered on But you know with clients before It would be like um hey listen i just Spent like 12 hours pouring over amazon Reviews and i’ve looked at all the good Reviews and all the bad reviews and i’ve Done all the research and
I spent 40 hours researching this you Know so You know if you really don’t have Experience with it you can’t or if you Haven’t you know Physically used it you can still find Other ways to instill trust uh Yeah in a reader um there was a time When i was working only on Legal websites and i’m not a lawyer you Know so i can’t just say hey i’m a real Lawyer so let me give you this advice Because that’s not true right Um and that’s obviously that that’s Probably against the law right so that Might get you shut down but there are Ways around it it’s like hey listen i’ve Been reading all these articles i’ve Been in this business for a long time I’ve been in this situation before so There’s a lot of different ways to Instill trust without saying i’ve Actually used this product And what are um what are some of the Ways in which You can talk about the the product Without Sounding too salesy because this is Something I see a lot especially with newer Writers or newer web writers Is that they they often sort of Regurgitate the sales page material Uh rather than write what’s supposed to
Be a third party review Yeah wow that’s actually a step up from What i see on a regular basis what i see On a regular basis is just like kind of Like Hey this table is great and it’s blue And it weighs 75 pounds and it has four Legs and you should buy it You know like that’s kind of yeah that’s What i mean though they’ll they’ll go on The sales page and they’ll look through Oh yeah and they’ll just say oh you know Yeah and they’ll just rephrase that it Has four legs and oh it’s a lovely color Of blue and You know yeah yeah yeah exactly that’s Exactly what i see Um i think the best way to describe it Just thinking of it off the top of my Head is like Okay on a sales page you need to be Really over the top you need to be I mean not lying but you need to be Super powerful You know i i wrote a sales page where i Was talking about some um Some not a cpap machine but some kind of Like Huge leap forward in um sleep apnea Technology and the headline was Literally something like The single greatest leap forward in Sleep apnea treatment since Xyz technology you know and then the
Subheading was you know guaranteed Better sleep Or your money back something like that So you need to be super Salesy right it’s a sales page but on an Affiliate review That’s obviously that’s going to do the Opposite of instilling trust in a reader They’re going to be like okay this guy’s Selling me something So you’ve gotta find the middle ground You wanna be punchy but You could dial it back a little bit and I always say pretend you’re talking to Like a friend about it But you’re super excited about it you Know you’re not just talking about hey You should use this product you should Be a little bit excited about it But not like salesy you know so you Could be like um If we’re talking about hiking boots oh That’s another thing um Humor is big thing to like soften the Blow so i’ll get to that so if you’re Talking about like hiking boots Uh you could say something you know like Honestly these are really The best hiking boots i’ve ever tried in My life and i’ve tried 20 different Pairs You could uh you could bring a bucket of Mud And just put your feet in the mud for
Fun and they’re you’re not going to slip Anywhere you know something like that uh Make it a little bit fun don’t just say These are absolutely the greatest hiking Boots ever Oh my god check them out you know you Don’t want to You don’t want to do that so you want to Just soften it a little bit and my Kind of like my creative process is like To get my energy going i always make it A 10 out of 10. i’ll be like These are the uh these are the the Nuclear bomb You know of hiking boots or something to Get my energy going and then i dial it Back to like a six or a seven I find a way to like soften it where i’m Just like okay yeah these are These are easily the best beginner Hiking boot uh because X y and z i’ve never seen anything like This uh at this price before See notice that doesn’t really sound too Salesy but it’s still Enough oomph to get that click i notice As well you’re you’re talking about your Opinion of it so like i’ve never seen This Or explaining it from from the kind of Reviewers perspective I think a lot of writers or some writers They tend to write more in like the Third part third person so like
Uh xyz pro hiking boots Are really good they do this they do This It’s said that they perform well for These these types of people Whereas i think a lot of readers When they’re looking for what’s supposed To be an independent third-party review They’re looking for a person they can Trust who’s going to give their Opinion of it not like a faceless brand That’s going to Regurgitate the the sales page really so Correct Correct yeah i definitely always write Um In i as much as possible you know the First person As much as possible and if you don’t Have a website like that i would still Say we or our I never use um i never use any kind of Distancing i don’t like to say it could Be said or it has Shown to i just there’s not a lot of Power in it it’s very impersonal Um it it there’s a disconnect between The the site and the reader I really don’t like that um if you can Do it in first person and if you can’t You know go with the Go with the corporate we or our okay We’ll get back to the the humor point That which you mentioned before in just
A sec but can we talk about Features and benefits like what what are They what’s the difference between a Feature and a benefit and how should Affiliates be using those Those two things in reviews you know a Feature is obviously A feature like it’s what it comes with You know you buy this hiking boot and it Comes with This kind of midsole it comes with this Level of thickness it comes with this uh This material uh this and that but uh The benefit is Obviously what the reader is going to Get out of it right like how their life Is going to be better the problems that It’s going to solve And that’s what’s really going to make Make the sale Right um and the problem is like pretty Much Every affiliate review just focuses on The features Or it just focuses i’ve seen a lot of Reviews lately I don’t know if it’s just sticking out Of my mind or what but a lot of them Have just talked about like the company Itself like Where it’s like this is the newest Printer from xerox and xerox is really Into it and like uh I think this is gonna solve all your
Printing needs because xerox has Invested a lot of money and it’s like Wow what that is just It’s infuriating you know for me and for Readers it’s really boring you know Nobody’s going to drop 400 On a printer or whatever they cost Because uh xerox just rolled this new One out right They want to know it’s like hey you’re Never going to run out of ink you know Or it’s never going to jam up you know That last time you threw your printer Because the jam you know like This one is actually going to it’s going To print out your school stuff when you Need it and you’re not going to kick the Thing like three times a day That’s what people want to hear so I would always just focus on the main Benefit and go as deep Into the benefit as possible i always Tell people there are layers and layers And layers to benefits so you have the So let’s just stick with the hiking boot Right like this easiest example so Whoever has a hiking website is going to Get a ton of value out of this podcast Um so you’ve got the you’ve got the Hiking boot right The the first level of benefit is like Um okay it’s got the most comfortable Midsole i’ve ever felt right or this Midsole is going to stop you from
Getting blisters on your feet like That’s the benefit right But what’s even the benefit of the Benefit like What is the benefit of not having Blisters on your feet go even deeper What happens when you don’t have Blisters on your feet well for one you Can actually hike all day Right uh two you have an enjoyable Experience right so you want to come Back and do it again and three You don’t have to leave the hike and all Your friends like start making fun of You because you couldn’t handle the hike Because you bought the wrong shoes and Now you have no uh Friends anymore you know your friends All just kind of leave you alone and They never invite you again like there Are There are layers and layers and levels And levels to benefits and the further You go The better and i’m not saying every Writer is going to be able to do it and I’m not saying you have to do this for Every single product But especially like your number one and Number two products like go as far into It as As you can is that so you keep asking The question So what well it means this so what
Exactly that means and kind of like Drill down Multiple levels like that and that’s Actually another good one What and why details are really Important you know people are not going To drop You know if i go into uh guitar center And i want to buy a new guitar All right i just bought a piano i just Bought a keyboard right so i went in to Buy the keyboard And um and it’s like you know it’s not Expensive it’s like a couple hundred Bucks it’s nothing Fancy but if the guy’s just like oh yeah Uh it has Um it has 60 keys on it you know i’m Like okay I’ve never played the piano before That’s that’s why i’m buying this Beginner piano What is 60 keys you know like what does That do for me if anything that sounds Terrible to me it’s like 60 keys I can’t play 60 keys at once i can’t Keep track of 60 different notes It sounds overwhelming almost you know So like i’ve got to know why that That benefits me you know and it’s like Well it benefits me because that gives Me more chords to play And i can learn faster but what’s the Benefit of that it’s like oh i can play
The songs you have to really know who’s Behind it who what do they really want I bought the piano because i want to be Able to play the pop and jazz music that I hear all the time on youtube that i Love It’s like well you have more keys and That means you can play more songs and You’re gonna sound uh You’re gonna sound just like the weeknd You’re gonna sound just like uh shawn Mendes or amy winehouse or Any pink floyd song you wanna play like That’s really like What what drew me to the to the piano With more keys right like And i’m very i’m still very bad at it I’ve only been playing for like two Weeks i’m not trying to say i’m a piano Player yet But like so again the benefit and There’s multiple layers To the benefits so 60 keys okay that Means more More space to play with right more Chords more possibilities And then the benefit to that benefit is Like well hey you’re going to be able to Play along with pretty much Any song in the history of music like That is that’s the real benefit right And the benefit to that benefit is well Now you’re going to be a good piano Player and everybody’s going to love you
So what is the what’s the real secret Sauce To getting someone over the line to Actually make the purchase to trigger That Buying emotion i would say that There’s probably no one secret sauce but Your best chance to do it Is to just hit them with the benefit Right away i always tell people like Treat every affiliate review like i mean The actual product reviews themselves Like Product number one product number two Treat them almost like you would A sales page and what does a sales page Lead off with a headline Right and what is in the headline what’s In the headline is the main benefit Right it’s it what what’s in the Headline is the main reason you should Be buying this product And uh i think the best possible chance You have at making a sale is that First line that you that the reader Gets to because everything after that is Just kind of supporting information Um so i would definitely approach it in That way so if you have one product Again let’s just stick with the hiking Boot you know you have your number one Hiking boot for beginners The first line needs to be something Like a headline that you would see on a
Sales page Just not two sales you’d be like okay up First Is by far the best beginner hiking boot You know the You know the authority hacker pro Beginner hiking boot and No other boot came nearly as close uh in Our testing when it comes to comfort Durability and price you know like the Main reason to buy that boot And um again it all comes down to Finding out what the main benefit of a Beginner hiking boot is and and To me it sounds like okay it’s Affordable and it’s going to give you a Really Fun hike you’re going to be able to Handle any terrain and Uh you’re going to be able to stay out All day you know but it’s not too Expensive right because you’re a Beginner So my my leading line would be something Like Yeah up first is by far the best Beginner hiking boot i’ve ever seen in My life The authority hacker pro hiking boot um Because xyz you know we were out on the Trail for 10 hours And our feet felt great and uh it’s Ludicrously cheap compared to other ones And then to kind of give yourself more
Credibility dial it back a little bit I mean like it’s definitely not the best Boot out there and there are way more Comfortable ones but you know for a Beginner At this price it’s absolutely what You’re looking for I think if you lead off with something Like that and have a clear You know cta like if you’re a beginner With this budget get it With a with the link i i really think That’s Your best chance of making a sale and That’s what i’ve had the most success With Yeah i i really like the idea of having Some kind of link Very early on in the intro so that those Those people who don’t Want to read a thousand or 1500 words of Your your article They kind of just want the answer and That tldr They can they can go through click and You can you can make the the commission I also think that probably has the Effect of pumping people’s Emotional state so you’ll you’ll get Them excited About the product yeah and they’ll it Their emotions Their emotional side will be convinced That they want the product
And then even if they still go and read The rest of your article It’s almost like the the technical Details Are them convincing their logical side Or rationalizing their their emotional Desire to purchase it When you structure it that way yeah yeah Yeah for sure because they’re gonna look At the other arctic they’re gonna look At the other products and just think Like Oh yeah well i mean i don’t even need Any of these ones why would i buy Another one that one is perfect for me Is there any trick to your outro your Call to action your conclusion Whatever you put at the end of the the Article Uh i wouldn’t say there’s a trick i Think that it’s different Uh for every article depending on what It is like if you’re reviewing one Product If you’re reviewing you know like a 10 Product roundup if you’re comparing two Products Uh recently i did one where i was Comparing two products and um The kind of like outro was just like you Know Uh in the end i definitely prefer this One If you are this customer however
If you’re on a budget and you just need Something that’s simple This product is probably better for you So that’s That’s kind of how i would approach like An abe versus b review If it’s 10 products i would definitely Hammer home Uh the first product and uh i would Definitely And also it comes down to like how you Structure the article right like it Could be Okay number one is the best overall Number two is the best budget one Number three is like the best high-end One if you have a big budget or whatever Number four is the best for beginners Etc right so In the outro i would just kind of Reiterate that that stuff i would be Like So yeah in conclusion you know number One is by far the best overall It tested the best during our testing Run however if you’re on a budget get Number two And uh if you’ve got a big budget go at Number three and then maybe i’d make Like a little little joke or I like to have these themes like running Throughout the whole article where i Make like uh you know call backs and Repeating jokes and stuff like that um
So i might kind of just tie the whole Thread together with a you know a theme Or a callback but that’s not really Necessary it’s just my style Um so yeah just to sum it up i would Just kind of Hammer home the structure uh that you’ve Given to the article So just repeat basically what you’ve Been saying throughout the whole article This one’s the best But you know if you’re on a budget go With this one You mentioned their humor again i don’t Consider myself a very funny person How can someone like me write in a funny Way Wow i that’s a good question man i Really wish i’m I don’t know the theory behind it i mean Humanity we still don’t even know what Humor actually is right i guess it’s Like a social lubricant or something Like that but Um i i can just tell you what i do and What i do is i just make like jokes that I know are going to like jokes that Everybody can relate to you know like i Kind of make fun of myself or um I make these kind of i’m not like not Like crass or anything like that but Um so recently for example i was doing Something like in the fitness niche And uh and it’s for somebody’s you know
This guy personal trainer’s website and Uh I was like this gym rack is everything i Wanted it to be and you know like my Wife can finally fit that exercise bike That i hate more than anything else in The world You know it’s like everybody everybody Can relate to like relationship humor Right that’s Actually okay that’s that’s a that’s a Good idea just what do stand-up Comedians talk about like they all talk About the same stuff right it’s all like Uh It’s all relationships right it’s all Like current events it’s all Uh celebrities and stuff like that like Uh today i made fun of chuck norris in One of my articles like i’m sure people Get to check out chuckle out of that no Pun intended Um so yeah just just kind of use those Things as a crutch Um or uh recently like In one of the sites that i’m working on We review like a lot of software and i Talk about how the software works and Then in parentheses i put something like I really don’t have any friends somebody Helped me And like so i thought that was uh i Thought that was pretty funny i don’t Know if other people think it’s funny i
Think it’s hysterical and that keeps me Writing So that’s really all that matters oh one Other Great example i have that client Absolutely loved it was something about Like a bench press Um or no no it was um It was something about like calisthenics You know like doing push-ups or whatever And my my intro was like hey hercules Never had a bench And like uh hercules never had a smith Machine and his chest is doing just fine And it’s like a meme of hercules like With this huge like chest like sticking Out So like i thought that was hysterical The client absolutely yeah And actually i’m i guarantee you that he Didn’t even read the rest of the article He just loved it And uh yeah i mean he paid me money for It so i guess it worked That’s when i’m trying to assess whether A piece of content is good or not i Always look at the intro And you can almost tell just from that’s The first question a quick scan And a quick scan through the rest of the Article if it’s if it’s going to be good Or not and particularly when uh when it Comes to To hiring writers uh if you if i give
Lots of tests out or ask for ask for Samples i can’t read Dozens of of super long articles from From every portfolio so you’ve got to You’ve got to be able to be able to make A quick judgment i think a lot of people When they’re Reading affiliate reviews or other other Content are Taking a similar approach as well so Yeah Um super important yeah i agree Especially with hiring writers Um but interestingly enough i’ve been Kind of like changing i’m kind of doing A 180 on this recently because um So yeah the intro is absolutely crucial And it’s the first place you look right And just logically right is the first Thing you see It’s where my eyes go first and you know If the intro is really bad i used to Just be like okay i’m not i’m not Working with this person you know this Person is hopeless or something like That which is not really fair And i’ve noticed like over time with Training writers and things like that It’s actually not hard to to kind of Beat that mistake Out of writers i mean i used to do it Myself when i look back at the stuff i Wrote three or four years ago it’s Cringe-worthy right
So it’s pretty easy to be like hey from Now on You’re you can only write 100 words or Less and it has to be using this formula With this emotion you know it’s the Intro is actually fairly Mechanical compared to the body of the Of the piece right like The intro can be formulaic the intro can Be Uh just a few lines of hey Greet the reader trigger this emotion Give the topic And then you know some bullet points About what they’re going to read and a Lot of writers can actually Learn it fairly quickly so i used to Just kind of be like okay this writer is Hopeless But i i’ve really come around on that Like if if they’re decent enough with Their writing and clear And concise enough you know i wouldn’t Let the intro I wouldn’t let the intro kind of prevent You from working with them you know That’s easy to that’s easy to correct But yeah you’re right When i’m when i’m vetting writers like i Literally i just look at it’s like a Heat map you know Intro first line or first paragraph you Know then i kind of scan through And i just kind of look around see where
My eyes land you know see if they’re Doing the right format Uh then i’ll read like a random sentence Or two and i’m able to tell like this Like immediately like okay is this Person worth it or not What does your process look like for Hiring writers then from start to finish I would say that um you mean like from Very start like to the job listing and Things like that yeah i don’t really Um i haven’t i haven’t quite done that In a long time what i’ve been doing is I’ve been helping others To hire so they normally take care of The the job listing You know they’ll post it up on some Facebook group or cult of copy or Wherever they’re looking up work etc So what i do is i’m really looking for The the writer You know themselves i go through that Kind of stage so what i do is basically Just I’d give a quick scan of their portfolio And I keep a score card but it’s mostly in My mind you know um I’ve got it to the point where i know Exactly what i’m looking for and i know Like how it compares to other things That i’ve seen recently or you know The average writer i’ve just got that All in my mind at this point if i were
Somebody else i would just keep a score Card you know intro because that’s super Important You know intro one out of five uh you Know quality Uh of the of the body one out of five You know lengthiness one out of five Um value one out of five like do they Just Do they spend a lot of time explaining Things that the reader doesn’t need to Know Do they waste a lot of time just uh Just kind of saying bland things that Don’t have any value like one of my Biggest pet peeves Is like when you have a the content will Be like okay step two Wash your boots and then the first line Is if you want your boots to be clean You need to wash them it’s like yeah Genius thank you like that’s what we’re Here for you know you don’t need to Reiterate that So that’s uh if they make a lot of Mistakes like that i i I dot them big time in the value Uh in the in the value metric so yeah Just evaluate their portfolio Keep a little basic score card from There i would get them to write like 100 To 150 words sample on any topic Uh within the niche like so you know if You’re in hiking you know it’s like okay
You do the research you find a topic Write me 100 to 150 words on it With your opinion on this topic you know And um that way you can kind of see Because a portfolio is pretty Pretty easy to fake and i’m not going uh I’m not ashamed to admit that i totally Faked My my writing portfolio when i first Started i told people i’d been doing it For years And i literally had no samples i just I’m not saying i stole people’s articles I just wrote a bunch of articles Um and i put them in my portfolio and i Was like oh yeah these are all the People that i’ve worked for but i can’t Disclose their websites you know so Um so yeah so you just made a bunch of Google docs with With articles and said that yeah these Are this is working correct yeah that These were all from like my clients uh Sites and people were like oh you’ve Worked with a lot of people and i’m like Yep yep i’m working with a lot of people Yeah so uh uh but anyways i made it So after that you get them to write like 100 to 150 word sample And um i would definitely evaluate that On one like How quickly do they get it to you uh two Did they follow your instructions did They give their
And that’s another thing you have to get Them to to really give their opinion Anybody can just copy paste information Anybody can just go to any website And kind of regurgitate what was said But there needs to be Synthesis you know they you they need to Prove that they’ve taken this Information Synthesized it and been able to add Value to it to the reader explain it to The reader explain how it works Etc um so make them give their opinion Uh you could even take it next level and Be like okay and make sure you include Um You know uh god bless america in the Final line that way you can see if they Um If they uh can follow instructions right So I would definitely evaluate it from There and then from there i would give Them a paid sample Of you know for example 500 to 750 words And um i would evaluate that And i would give them some areas for Improvement and i would give them Another sample And tell them hey this is what i’m going To grade you on this is what i’m Expecting to see please improve these Things And if they don’t improve them i’m going
To be kind of kind of angry about that Be like hey listen i told you to do this And you didn’t do it However um Sad to say the average writer is just Not that good so That wouldn’t necessarily be like a Death sentence to me if they’re still Decent And they didn’t improve i would still Kind of rock with it if they were good Enough And maybe give them a chance to to get Better again with another sample It’s really a lot of it comes down to Feel um But i think over two to three samples And a 100 word sample You will get a good feeling for okay Does this person listen to directions Can they synthesize information Uh do they do they write well enough to Be on my website you know like Are they going to be tough to work with That kind of stuff because writers can Be We’re a very fickle bunch so we we can Be tough to work with at times i’ll Admit it How do you then go about working with a Writer of Effectively like once you’ve got them on Board like what are Some of the the ways site owners could
Can maybe improve the way they They handle that side of things Yeah i think um just over time i’ve Noticed that a lot of writers are really Sensitive Um i’m actually not and i think that’s i Think that’s one of the reasons that I’ve gotten better because like like i Said when i started out writing like When i go back i was always good at Um writing clearly that was always my Biggest uh My biggest skill but i had a lot of a Lot of stuff that i was really bad at You know And um the reason i got better was just Taking feedback and rolling with it and Being like being able to take a step Back from the The writing because writers we think That like the we think the article is Like our baby right it’s like oh we Created this this is a This is the product of my creativity you Know you can’t say anything bad about it Um when in reality like okay well this Is coming down to money And uh you can’t say bad things about it As long as it’s constructive criticism You know So um so again what i mean by that is Just like writers can be very sensitive So what i would do Is i would always compliment them first
Be like hey i really like this I really like this you know highlight if You got it in google docs make some Comments like oh this is really good This is really good And um and then just kind of soften the Blow a little bit Just be like i think what you can Improve on is this Maybe you can cut this down a little bit Or kind of identify with them a little Bit it’s like hey i used to do the same Exact thing Every writer goes through this don’t Worry however i learned over time that This actually works better Don’t worry about it it’s just if you Start doing this it’s going to be a lot Better trust me And i’ve noticed that they respond to That a lot more i used to be very Like blunt because that’s that’s how i Work like i expect You know polite but very blunt criticism Uh And i’m okay with that i can take that And um I can change the way i work uh with that But Uh to be honest the average writer Cannot and i’ve had a lot of issues with That over the last Few years where they get super defensive Um where they’re like oh no
You’re wrong everybody’s different uh You don’t really know exactly what works And it’s like actually Yeah i do know what works that’s why i’m That’s why i’m training you here Um so it’s you gotta be delicate though I’ve given up being blunt Um so yeah be delicate give them Oh yeah go ahead sorry i was going to Say i think if you Position it uh during the hiring process That in the early days of the first 10 Articles there’s gonna be a lot of Feedback we we Like it done in a very specific way but Our goal is to help you to educate you And then to get you to a point where you Can Write it with only minimal feedback uh After A certain certain period of time so they Kind of know it’s coming To an extent yeah they they often take It better Yeah yeah you’re probably right i should Maybe i should probably take more time Up front to i mean i do always let them Know like hey i’m going to Give you constructive criticism this is To make you better you know can you Handle criticism and stuff like that i Always i’m always upfront about that Um but maybe yeah if you’re if you’re Spending more time on that
And it and it’s working then um then Maybe i i should as well you know Because i always think but you know then Again like the writer they always tell Me Oh yeah i can i can handle it and then I’m like hey man you did this wrong and They’re like whoa well you know Uh you know so it’s kind of like um Yeah just in general yeah you’re Probably right if you’re just more Upfront about hey we’re going to give You some blunt criticism But we’ve been doing this for a long Time and uh we know what works and what Doesn’t work and we also have like a Really quirky style so maybe You know what you’re doing is good but It’s not exactly what we want Um that will definitely help soften the Blow for sure Yeah and just explain that it’s it’s it You’re not doing it To like put them down but you’re trying To help them and Help help both of you get the content to Where where it wants to be Um this this has been really really Great um i’ve learned a lot um even Though we we Kind of had this this conversation Already i think we’ve uncovered a few New nuggets today Is there anything that i i haven’t asked
You which i Should have asked you today i think um Just a few things that i want to cover That i’ve been i’ve been noticing Recently is like For anybody in affiliate seo Your job is to like uh that your whole Your whole livelihood is selling Products right so if you If you’ve got a product that you’re Gonna recommend especially a single Product review Um do not bury the value of the article Underneath 2000 words of explaining to Me what it is um I’ve been seeing that a lot with the Clients that i’ve been working with Where it’s like hey today we’re going to Review this supplement And then there’s like a 200 word intro Which is again too long And then like the first section is what Is supplement how does it work What are the ingredients like um Don’t don’t uh don’t bury the value Underneath a mountain of Of content like you’ve got to give them A chance to buy you know In my experience just having that that i Don’t know i was just called a buy box i Don’t know a better word for it just That that section at the beginning That’s like buy now where they have the Main benefit or you know the first
Section can be like why i recommend this Product or However you wanna you know there’s Multiple ways to skin a cat just give Them a chance To get the value and buy the product Before we get into all the supporting Content that is um I’ve seen that a lot recently and i just Know from experience like i’ve seen uh I’ve seen that convert very low and just Putting like the the value above all of The supporting content I’ve seen convert very well so you know If anybody has uh data to the contrary Uh i’m happy to see it i would love to To know what really works it’s just in My experience That is detrimental to to to conversions Well kevin thanks very much for for Coming on the show today i really Appreciate you sharing your your wisdom Here Um can you tell us a little bit more About your your Course that you have web copy master Class yeah sure So web copy master class is basically Everything that we have talked about in This this interview Plus a whole lot more and it’s it’s Really all just Uh practical examples step by step where Where people learn
Exactly what has been working on all of The the Affiliate sites that i’ve ever worked on And Learning things like okay how do you Write in the right tone how do you write Concisely how do you write with power How do you write with emotion how do you How do you sell what are the emotions That sell products You’ll learn how to write an intro You’ll learn you’ll see a bunch of good Examples And then i give a bunch of like swipe Files where you just get Examples of intros examples of good body Content uh Examples of good seo titles examples of Good affiliate reviews to copy Checklists and all that stuff it’s Basically like everything i’ve learned Over the last Six or seven years of doing this just Dumped Right all into a course you know like Right into a google slide uh Presentation and um I think the best feedback i’ve gotten About it is it’s super practical you see What’s what people are doing that’s not Working and then how i Redo it and what started working you Know so that is um It’s super easy to follow it’s almost
Zero Theory it’s like 95 practical How to do this and five percent theory I think what makes yours different from Most other Course content you know include Including our own is is you have a Writing background and have written Thousands of of articles you’re you’re Not coming at it from like a site owner Perspective So much even though that’s you know a Lot of a lot of the audience are going To be those Those people so if you guys are Interested in checking that out it’s Web copymasterclass.com uh how can People Follow you are you on twitter social Media at all Yeah you can find me at uh kevin mang M-e-n-g Mang on facebook um there’s going to be About A thousand kevin bangs from from hong Kong and mainland china but i’m buried Underneath like Towards the bottom you will see me Eventually though um You could also find me at Webcopymasterclass.com you can find me At freelanceaholics.com i’m not on Twitter The best place to get me is facebook
Though i’m pretty much Always active there and also you can Kind of get more insight into my brain And seo copywriting Mastermind which is my facebook group Awesome okay that’s a free group anyone Can join is it yeah free group yeah join Up and Uh okay take a look at all the images i Keep posting it’s a lot of fun All right well we’ll put a link to that In the the show notes as well Kevin thanks very much for joining us Today uh guys i hope you enjoyed this Interview hope you got a lot of Value from it i know i did if you liked This episode if you liked kevin’s Interview If you want more of these kinds of Interviews uh do leave us a comment Uh or a like on on youtube tell us what You think If you have any questions about copy Feel free to comment down there as well Maybe we can get kevin to respond to Some of those those comments after this Goes out Yeah that’d be fun in the meantime we Have this podcast every single monday Next week we will be back with another Episode and then gail and Gail will return to to host the show Then uh So make sure you subscribe on youtube or
Wherever you get your your podcast uh Thanks and have a good day [Music] You