Kyle Roof’s Best Onpage SEO Tips of 2020

Hey everyone welcome to the attorney Hacker podcast this week I’m not with mark but i’m with one of Our most popular guests Of the year karaoke from page optimizer Pro and we have decided to do a second Volume of essentially Seo gems kind of like looking back at 2020 and talking about what changed and Experiments we’ve done on both sides i Think you will like it if you like the First podcast i did with him in february You will like this one unfortunately Because this video has been recorded on Zoom and Not on our usual setup the quality is a Little bit worse the screen is split Between both of us but still A lot of value so if you enjoy these Kind of interviews don’t forget to click On the subscribe button and click on the Thumbs up And on the notification bell so you Don’t miss our videos you can also Subscribe to the audio version of this Podcast on all the podcast platforms But for now let’s jump into the Interview [Music] Everyone so we started the year with cal Roof and that was one of our most Popular Podcast episodes so i decided to kind of Like close the year with cal

And just kind of like do a bit of a Retrospective on what happened We’ll do a bit of a different one with Mark a little bit later but this one is Going to be Like pure seo nerdy stuff etc we’re Going to talk a lot about on-page Because you guys Know that i know you guys love what cal Has to say about on-page I just want to address some of the Complaints that there was In the latest podcast there was that Comment from this guy called fontbot That said good podcast but please Let cal or any guest speaker you are Invited Talk more you’re sounding like a client No offense so you guys can sign up to This guy’s agency we’re going to put the Url below If you want to become one of his clients It’s going to it’s going to be a good Time You know i thought people were nice and Until we started posting on youtube you Know I don’t even understand what that means That you’re sounding like a client Well it means he doesn’t like his Clients very much or he likes me a lot i Don’t know Exactly actually it could have been a Compliment yeah i don’t know but

Anywhere it’s like if you put the url You know depending on how people Interpret that they can They can i don’t have his url by the way It’s a joke But uh yeah so it’s like you know it’s Like it’s funny because i thought people Didn’t mind about my about my accent And things like that uh people were Always nice when i met them etc and then We got on youtube And then and then i discovered what People really think you know it’s like People people have uh nicknames on there And then either you can’t tell who they Are And uh yeah well i guess uh i guess French is not as popular as our thai Would be you know But anyway i’ll keep going with that There’s also a lot of like very positive Comment by the way it’s just Honestly it makes me laugh actually People who who drop negative comments Like i don’t mind that much If you don’t want to watch you can just Click on whatever clickbait There is on the right here yeah you can Literally move on to another video Exactly it’s okay you know anyway let’s Get started with the actual podcast Uh and basically yeah we started talking We talked In february and i think your podcast i

Checked just earlier was the second most Downloaded podcast this year actually so It’s been quite popular i think it was From um All the facebook groups like uh proper Seo And steve king’s group as well et cetera And uh these guys Love you and so it got really really Popular so well Uh that’s that’s going to be a good Treat for them to have you again Uh i would like to ask what is the Biggest change for you In seo in 2020 sure Well you know i think i say every year That things don’t change And by and large they they don’t change One big thing that did happen though um It was uh Uh october 8th um gary isles Martin split and john mueller all have a Podcast it’s called Search off the record or something like That and within That podcast they talked about that Google normalizes html And what that means is google fixes html So so that they can Um if you have broken html they’re Trying to put it back together so they Can see what you’re trying to do but the Reason that they’re doing that Is that they want to find your h1

Through your h4 And assign weight accordingly and This i thought was really huge because It confirmed you know everything that We’re seeing in testing Things that i see in practice in seo but A lot of people still think that h tags Don’t matter and even You probably go through search engine Journal and find plenty of articles that Say Your htags don’t matter at all it’s it’s Not what we see And in this particular case if this Isn’t true this would be just a complete Lie um From directly from the mouthpiece of Google and that seems Unlikely um that that would be such a Brazen lie but within this Within this podcast and kind of Explaining how things work it was it was About caffeine which is about indexing Um uh breaking out exactly how they’re Doing it and why they’re doing it Um i thought was extremely significant Yeah i mean It’s like it’s funny because let me just Tell everyone i told that story to kyle Yesterday because we recorded that Podcast and it went wrong and we were Recording it so i’m about to tell you The same story guys so Please like use your best tactics to

Your skills and just act surprised when I tell you the story okay uh Yesterday carl was dancing so he gave me Stalin a lot um Yeah so it’s like i believe that google Actually fixes uh html on pages i think They’ve done it for a long time i think Matt katz actually was mentioning it Already when he was working there he was Like oh small businesses they don’t know How to They make a lot of mistakes on their Sites and we try to fix it and our goal Is to show the best content not to show Who has the best html Um but like i have a proof of that that Will kill my credibility completely And and that’s why it’s a it’s an Interesting one people will love that Is that uh an authoritarian reader Emailed us a couple months ago asking Why we no index No follow our homepage on authority Hacker is that a new tactic Etc like is this some kind of like new Trick etc And like i think mark forwards it to me And i’m like That’s weird um and i go check and sure Enough We’re no index and follower for people Who don’t understand what that means is Basically we’re telling google Count every link on our home page has no

Follow so not passing Link juice and also no sorry it was Index no follow so it was indexed so you Would google us and It would be indexed i think this they Would respect but no follow means Essentially don’t No follow all the links on that page and Please don’t pass page ranks through These links right Um which is absolutely terrible for a Site like atari hacker that has like Eight nine hundred linking Domains and some really big ones we have Like an ahrefs homepage link for example Like that gives you an idea of the kind Of links that Uh that would get uh negated to that Kind of Mistake um and and to my surprise our Rankings Literally hadn’t moved and it’s like i Was like well maybe we just it’s Something that just rolled out a couple Days ago And so that’s why it’s just not Re-indexed and google has indexing Problems etc so why not So i checked in in way back machine People can check themselves actually After this podcast And this was a nine months old mistake So given the amount of links that page Had as well for sure google knew about

It Um and and and to my surprise like Rankings didn’t move and so what Happened probably was that uh We had some staging site we probably you Know no no index states we had both A classic mistake with the uh and then We forgot to antique you know like We misclicked and just pressed update on The wordpress and just rolled it out and Well good job Uh we had no photos Uh no followings on the homepage and um And nothing happened Before like when we brought this up and When we removed it From an organic traffic perspective so My Uh understanding is that google just Ignore it and it’s like these guys are Idiots And we’re just gonna do the right thing And Essentially to me there is a good living Proof that google Fixes your mistakes at least or tries to Uh To fix things and intervenes into the Data you’re giving to them and Everything is basically a strong hint You know how rare curricula is like a Strong hint but they don’t have to Follow it i feel like everything is more Or less of a strong hint

When it comes to on-page things at least And i can i’m not surprised that there Would be other things Yeah now that’s um i love that uh I think i run into that error every Other month When somebody’s like i you know i’ve got This and i’m like well you know you’re Set to no index or you’re set to Do you realize yeah yeah you know you’re Said to you said this and It’s just because yeah that so We’re we’re just like them we make this It’s like it’s important to share that Because a lot of people like to like be Untouchable when they share their Stories et cetera it’s like We know a lot of these things because we up so many things as well Uh and so for sure yeah it happened and Actually didn’t really Cost us anything in this case so it was An interesting case study And we learned a lot it reminds me of um When the no follow the The photo was released there was a guy That disavowed all his links Um and google literally just ignored That and just he kept ranking just the Same as all so it’s like google Google fixes things for you basically Sure um but the h12 The h the heading reorganizing is Interesting because

I don’t think you would bother Reorganizing something that is Irrelevant And so like a lot of people don’t care That much And processing power alone that it would Take exactly just to do it To do it for kicks you know there’s no There’s no reason to do it other than This is extremely important It’s a complete glimpse into what They’re doing you know and Why they’re doing it is because they Need to do that so that they can really Find those things and that’s where They’re getting such strong Signals from about what is this page About you know and and what is in these Different areas And then what makes this page maybe Better than another page these are Four clear zones i’m also telling you Don’t really worry about h5 or h6 You know like that’s you know they would Have said i tend to rarely get there to Be honest like usually most people do But you ever you always wonder well you Know what if h4 counts what about an H5 but the answer would be no but um Kind of going to then you know what’s Changing Again if they’re telling us this now That this is how it’s going this is how It’s been

You know this isn’t something that they Just started doing uh And and it kind of goes to that this is What the core algorithm Just is you know this is how it actually Works Um which has been the same for forever a Long time because You know and if they’re willing to spend The money again then it’s something that They’re not gonna Decide to unspend it real quick um You know it just that’s that’s how it is So those things they are remaining the Same and google does Every once in a while it’s it’s nice to See that kind of confirmation I think it’s also it’s confirming that Most seo doesn’t change that much this Is probably something that’s very old Like you know just like organizing Weapons it’s like it’s like Probably one of the first versions had That i’m sure it’s one of the originals Yeah Yeah exactly and so and and you know People get excited was like ai Stuff etc and like these new these new Factors et cetera but They’re still like i mean we i still Personally see keyword stuffing work Really well Um and and it’s like It’s important to repeat that people

Because you know you go to search engine Journal or whatever And you read the latest seo articles and You’re gonna read about all these like Fancy new things that they’re releasing And talk about and Um you know like core web vitals and Things like that and so on Um and then people just like you know You go into a conference and you talk to Like agencies etc that’s all they can Talk about they don’t they forget about The basics and they’re just like So obsessed with like page speed which Is probably a one percent Uh ranking factor like a really low Ranking factor Um it’s like it’s maybe more of a slow Side penalty than the The fast side uh reward or something but Um Yeah i think it’s important to talk About this because people Put their mind and their resources in These tiny things And then there’s these giant gaps on the Right That they completely ignore because They’re so obsessed with whatever is the Latest thing etc Well before yeah exactly if you’re if You’re looking at a page or you’re You know just starting out or whatever You know you’re kind of at the beginning

Of a project Do the basics get the basics done you Know and And then put it up and go before you get To the fancy stuff you can’t go right Into fancy Um you know like nlp is super huge right Now right everyone wants to talk about Natural language processing and a couple Things i think about that are one Google’s nlp api does not have every Language it has like eight You know so does that mean it only Matters for the ones that they’re They’re um really caring about like is That it but then also why would google Allow you To tap into an api that shows you Exactly how to rank Or gives you any kind of benefit towards Rank that’s a hard one for me to swallow That they would be like You know we’ve been hiding this this Whole time but now if you just sign up For api You can have it like that they don’t Collect data from it as well like they Don’t get much In return you know what i mean like um It’s not like you’re giving them your Data or you’re giving them Some interesting stuff or something uh So it’s quite interesting Yeah it’s a i guess it depends on you

Know it’s kind of like Office politics as well right depends Who is running the project and things Like that as well like these guys are Very open source or something and it’s Just like Uh it doesn’t really match the rest of Google’s policy but it’s also not Against it to the point they would Like not let it happen or something or They just mislead you and they’re like Whoever is using it No i don’t think so okay i’m gonna take That Because people people people will just Uh take it literally Um you know at china seo people turn Their phone off So that google can track them so um That’s silly You know that that goes to the that’s That’s like a perfect seo thing that Um google cares Personally about what you’re doing no They don’t like they don’t really Know etc but i also think we also think Like you know Have you ever done seo and you think You’re the only one doing seo for that Serp For the big ones no definitely for the Small kiosks But i mean i think what we get i think We get into this mentality that i’m the

Only seo And so like you know when you hit page One and you knock somebody off there’s a Good chance that somebody is watching That and they’re not very happy about it But we don’t really think of it that way We think i hit page one Not somebody just got knocked off and They actually might try to do something To get back onto page one And we’re going to get varying you get Negative seo attacks in the very Competitive niches Like the ddos and all of that avoid Those but Just it’s just kind of that mentality of Yeah yeah i am I am the only seo and the only thing That’s going on here and google wants to Solve things algorithmically anyway they Don’t want to look at your stuff like When they do it oh yeah Yeah like i think for your stuff for Example like if for people who don’t Know car got the index For like essentially posting laura Meepsom he’s on his sites Um i think in your case it’s just Because you got the pr stunt behind it And there was articles etc It’s like it’s a good occasion in like One swing to make a lot of seos scared Um but otherwise they wouldn’t care like If if there was no story

If nobody talked about it nobody they Wouldn’t care about your size well you Know there’s an extra wrinkle to that Story too So uh a very brief version for people Who don’t know there was a public Competition i ranked a site And after the competition ended Technically The site went to number one in google And it was written in lorem ipsum And i did the math that you need and i Copied and pasted terms into the lorem Ipsum and it goes to number one Well uh i was studying the The google guidelines not that long ago And on the no no list There’s um automated uh generated Content Automatically generated content and the Number one thing on there Says content that doesn’t make any sense To the reader but contains search terms As as a rule and i was like when did That go into place Because i know that wasn’t a rule when i Did the competition so i put the url In into the wayback machine and there Were two dates one was pre The competition and one was a week after The site went live so people could see What that was and pre-competition No rule a week after that rule Comes into play so what’s crazy is then

About three months later is when search Engine journal decided to do their Article And that’s when uh the competition was De-indexed and then also Google then went after 20 test sites but Basically they changed the rule I think waited for it to come out of it And then punish me for the brand new Rule Which is pretty amazing i think you beat One of the google guys that was Participating in that competition that Must be the only answer you know But uh i’m so proud of this story by the Way i’m printing it on business cards And i’m just Passing it out on the street did you Know i have a google rule Do you really have that on business Cards i should yes Show me the business card i will wait i Just gave them out to all the thai People that i just watched and My neighbors like why is this guy Handing me a card yeah it’s true now You’re in chiang mai right you moved to Chiang mai they They it’s funny it’s like the way the Way i’m looking at it though when you Move to chiang mai i thought about you Know sports team acquiring talent you Know it’s like Acquiring i was like oh chiang mai made

A big acquisition for this year’s season You know they’re Quite terrible the the level of talent In this town is impressive I feel like you can’t throw a rock Without hitting somebody that’s doing Something really cool And is really just doing really well in Seo not just seos right There’s also a lot of people doing Facebook ads etc i mean i was in Co-working spaces there And um most of the people i heard Talking were mostly talking about Facebook ads and stuff and i mean Digital stuff as well Like but uh yeah i mean yeah you can In every cafe you go something there’s People walking on their laptops and I mean i bumped into a guy in a gorgeous Race and you know what are you doing He’s like oh i’m a php developer and i Was like i have a small php issue do you Mind and he’s like yeah Like he’s like oh that’s what you need To do I was like wow and it’s stunned I’ve also overheard some terrible uh Discussions on two recommendations also In cafes like people are recommending uh I can’t remember like something on tv Like some page builder on team forest or Something like really terrible yeah And it’s like i was just like eating my

Food and just shaking my head and just Like no no No they’re not all like they’re not all Pros but no but there’s A lot of good people for sure like when I was there it was fun um Congratulations congratulations on the Move i guess uh It’s uh it was good timing Uh really yeah it wasn’t easy because Coveted hit And we um and we were just kind of on Hold for a few months But the trick is have a child and then Enroll that child in a school So step one gayle is having a child Acquire a child i’m taking notes one Second Put child in school and then um that Increases your chances of getting it Well it’s like yeah i’m jealous you guys And we have that full mass Classification etc but anyway let’s go Back to seo i want to talk about seo Um let’s go let’s zoom i mean you talked About the Headings etc um one thing that Has changed a lot this year that i want To talk about is Our google indexing issues and google Essentially spending Ages indexing new pages i mean we work On several new sites And literally sometimes i wait a month

For The page to even just show up when i Type the url In google not not a keyword isn’t in the Url Um what do you think’s happening how has That Changed things what do you do Differently around these sure Well i think um there’s a problem I i think google is having an actual Issue and i think It’s possible that maybe they’ve hit a Hard cap you know that they were not Anticipating That uh they’re having trouble getting Through All of the urls at this point which i Think would go to that Uh there’s a good chance that uh updates Have slowed down because when they do an Update they have to refactor all the Pages And if there is an indexing problem That’s going to prevent them from doing These Types of rollouts i think you might Recall there were a couple times and i Think affiliates are really susceptible To a lot of this Where all of a sudden something happens And like all the Sites on page one drop and the thing That’s ranking is like a pdf

And a google site you know and stuff Like that like and it’s just so bizarre And it’s like that for three or four Days and then all of a sudden everything Reappears it’s thrown back yeah That’s a real problem you know that’s That’s that’s an absolute Issue and i think probably what has Happened in that situation is that they Did an update And could not recrawl re-index The the pages that were existing uh to See the the eventual outcome of that Update So they just have to kind of roll back To um Several times right where it went bad i Remember tim as well like uh Complaining on uh he didn’t rank for Keyboard two tools i’m saying this on With a traffic uh he was like what is This crap ranking and just like People retweeting and going crazy and Then two three days later literally the Exact same stuff as before the update Was back so they I think there’s i think there’s an Actual problem right now i don’t think It’s i don’t think this is anything Like so they took away the um manual uh Submission Within search console index uh you’re in Your urls and i think that’s because They can’t

I think just they can’t process it you Know that’s what i imagine that Kind of coming down to so um but One thing that’s interesting is that Sites that Are established sites that are already They already have a crawl budget I don’t see too many problems with those In terms of Them being crawled and indexed the sites That seem to struggle are brand new Sites Or relatively new sites that don’t have The same For lack of a better word authority than An older site those sites Seem to be hurting more and my guess is Because A site that has the google already knows And understands and um has an Established crawl budget i think google Is willing like okay we can do this much Processing we’ll just keep going With what we’re going and then anything New they’re really taking their time on Yeah i think any site below dr like 25 Or something When you use hs metrics kind of Struggles for me and then the sites are Like the r60 plus Feels quite similar it feels similar as If we didn’t submit it to the Tool which we usually did it so it’s Like it was i mean i used that request

Indexing to like Fine-tune my own page a lot you know Like just essentially like put a version Request indexing five minutes later it Would be index and jump up or down and Then you just like either roll back or Something like that Yeah i i i missed that kind of like Real-time seo we had a little bit of a Taste of that for like a few A few months i mean maybe not like maybe One or two years And now it’s just gone something in Testing that we’re doing so something That has changed for me Is actually finding um expired domains That have some juice so that you can put Them on and those pages will then index So that i can Get back into a lot of the testing i do Especially with the on-page type stuff Um because it is so hard just to take a Random domain that never existed And to get it to do anything is pretty Tricky Yeah i do that as well actually like It’s like it’s something like i haven’t Talked a lot about publicly because i’m Still in that phase and it’s like I would i the first time we met i was Like i’m I’m not so great on page and i didn’t Talk about this publicly and i Grinded the hell out of it for like one

Year and like uh Tried a lot of stuff and now i feel Quite comfortable talking about Our experiences like stuff we’ve done um Now i’m kind of in that phase with Expired domain starting sites on Domains et cetera but i have been Spending quite a bit of money on A good ide auction domains and i use That tool called Spamzilla which great branding by the Way Um that uh Essentially just kind of like curates All the marketplaces and allows you to Check you know hrs metrics number of Backlinks etc And i’ve made some really good deals Actually like i have a site that i Bought in like The small business software niche Um with links from like inc.com Time.com buffer.com like all of that to One domain Around like dr 33 i think something like This around that Paid 500 for it um it’s much cheaper Than actually acquiring these links Through a pr campaign or something like This oh for sure Um so i was pleasantly surprised but Then my question was like You know it’s like i read a lot what These pbn guys do right it’s like they

They’re like oh go on archive.org and Re-download the old domain and Restitute the old site and maybe add one Link and And i was like that’s too much work for Me um I’m the guy that i that no follows his Home page So it’s like you know i was like can’t Do that That’s the technique exactly you told That whole story actually to throw People off the trail Somebody found it yeah now everyone’s Gonna try it you know Maybe it does something it’s like uh It’s economic code for your site you Know Um but um but i just like threw a new WordPress on on several of these sites And Just ordered some fresh content from World agents actually like This is the case that i use for like Outsourcing some content And i was surprised like after a week i Was you know Top 30 to 50 for you know Semi-competitive keywords etc so it’s um It’s like even though google has crawl Issues yeah it’s like it seems like H domains with some links is definitely The way to get some action and It looks like i am i’m curious if i can

Break page one on like Non-branded terms on these sites quickly Like within a month or two It’s kind of like it’s kind of like the Mark of the sandbox right i have a site That i started on a new domain as well Um that is like position 11 for Sometimes for ages and i know I know it’s just like right that’s Racial then and and they won’t let us um So so i’m curious to see if i can break That and that’s why i don’t Necessarily like do big uh like Tutorials etc publicly yet because Uh i want to see if there’s a tangible Benefit and if i can actually hit some Commercial Terms on page one with this but uh yeah Actually i think the value of expired Domain is increasing with Google’s uh google’s indexing issues now Yeah for sure and just because you can Get them going faster You know yeah that’s just the bottom Line and um i think you’re mentioning That You’re not really even putting the same Content on and i can just tell you from The tests That i run it’s certainly not the same Content because it’s just lorem ipsum Yeah and for me it’s like loosely Related you know yeah And just i it works fine yeah so it’s

Interesting because it’s contradicts Most of what like common wisdom in pbns Would say it’s like If google’s ranking these sites i can’t See them discounting the links from These sites right That would make no sense so it’s like if You see some positive activity Organically then To me i think uh i mean i guess i’m Giving advice to pbn people now Um this is this is 2020 after all Goes back but uh i wouldn’t bother you Know it’s like um I would just i would just put a an okay Looking wordpress site and some content And And and go for it basically Every wordpress site or every pvn is Just a wordpress site until proven Otherwise Exactly um i know but like people are Really good to go through some crazy Extent to try to like Make it look legit basically and yeah I’m sure i’m not sure it’s worth it Um another thing i want to talk about is Feature snippets so few snippets have Changed this year Um the one change the main changes you At the beginning of the year you would Have the feature snippet And then you would have any ranking in The top usually five

Five six uh so you get double placement Nowadays you Don’t get double placement anymore you Only get uh the feature snippet or the Organic ranking Uh did that change anything in the way You do things And and did you consider this do you Still want feature snipers etc Are you a fan of the feature civic do You like having that spot and not having An organic spot are you in that camp Yes all right yeah I probably am too i mean you see more Clicks right yeah at the end Yeah i mean i see it when we go from not Having it to having it yeah I mean it’s not as big of an increase as It used to be i feel like like i feel It’s You know it’s like sometimes we get it It’s like plus 20 traffic or something Which is nice but You know before sometimes it was like Double triple quadruple the traffic It would be quite significant uh so i Think they changed the layout On some subs as well so it’s a little Bit less prominent It is definitely something that we are Cognizant of and um Uh if not say the the main target page That we’re looking at we will definitely Try to target

Some um featured snippet type Opportunities with our supporting Content And i think that’s going to support that Page if we can find you know sometimes There’s some random ones that have Featured snippets if we can go and steal That that just makes for such a solid Supporting page It’s just going to get a lot of traffic Coming it gets links as well right it’s Like if you rank high organically for Info content It’s like you get links people people Will rank the number one thing which is Actually the That passive income or passive income Passive Don’t go too fast it is passive income But the passive link building method of Running a google ad you know for Something and just Because people will link to the number One spot always like it’s crazy you rank For like any kind of like Info content keyword and like people Just like don’t search that much they Just google the keyboard click on the Number one And link to that as a result you know um If somebody wants to get rid of the Featured snippet though let’s say they Don’t want it and they would prefer To be in the number one and if you have

Data backing that up Yes yeah absolutely that’s what you Should be doing for your niche But um you can use the no snippet uh tag I had a lot of fun with this i was Playing with it in the scenario where Google won’t use your meta description You know you’ve written this Perfectly crafted meta description and Google’s being a real dick Yeah and you’re just pulling something Else and i’m like that’s not what i Wanted Um so what we did in that situation is That we so we had a page And uh google’s pulling just a chunk of Paragraph So i put the no snippet on that and what Was crazy is that google just went to Another spot on the page Actually went down to the next paragraph So i put no symbol on that paragraph Then google leapfrogged up to the top of The page grabbed a chunk from there So what at that point is i just no Snippeted the whole page and at that Point Google stopped doing that and um uh Went with the meta description that we Wanted in the same way if google Is taking a page for your featured Snippet you can put that no snippet on There If you don’t want it and um it will kill

It And presumably give you your rank back Wherever you were In that like one through five type Position you should actually go back Yeah and the thing is like if it’s maybe Your city feel number one but if you’re Not Like would you trade fidget snippet for Number three i don’t think i would Exactly Exactly so it’s kind of like a risky It’s kind of like Feels more stable when you have the Feeder snippet like it’s like It almost feels like it’s still a chrome Job you know it’s something that kind of Like Gets redone once in a while but not all Not as much real time as Um as the rankings and so it feels more Stable when you’re there so it’s like Sometimes you Maybe you want to trade some stability For like five percent less traffic or Something if you think that Uh well you would need to have the Numbers to back it up to really justify Like that there might be some niches That yeah You know i i i can see that as a Distinct possibility but you need to be Really confident In that decision i think you have to

Have a lot of numbers to back it up yeah The one thing that has changed for me as Well is a cure research process right so It’s like you essentially Because you can deep frog people let’s Say you need to be top five for fiddly Snippet top six actually technically but Number six is very very rarely gets it Um It’s like you even if the top two is Really strong for example you can just Aim for number three or four And then just do that that one for the Physics snippet and just sleep for a Really Large dr site with a like you know site That has half the dr or something Um and in qr selection it opens up a lot Of opportunities like you would You would look at it in a traditional Way for keyword research and you’ll be Like There’s no way um but then then you Think about this and you’re like You know i i might gamble on this one if It’s like a really high intent keyboard Or something It’s not something i would want to to do For like like 300 pages or something Because You kind of need to babysit them if you Want to maintain your physique sniffer And uh it’s a lot of resources but for Some key phrases

I think it’s a really cool way to uh go Where your competition Your level is not going to go actually Sure No i love that a lot you know that Brings up a good point too and something That i’ve been working on A bit is that there are times when You’re going to go after keyword that You’re not going to win Um you know it’s a it’s a very short Phrase You’re going up against huge huge and Huge and it just it doesn’t matter You’re not gonna win it but that doesn’t Matter Because when you optimize for that Primary you win So many other keywords there are a lot Of keywords in there that you could be Quite competitive for um And have these pages that are actually Getting a lot of uh Impressions and clicks um but you Couldn’t To really get there without having that Particular page on there that Going after that that primary term That’s really just out of reach It’s a concept i think people ought to Admit they miss a lot in that They like oh i can’t win that keywords I’m not gonna do that page Um there’s a lot of advantage to having

That page Getting those secondaries and then Building supporting content for it as Well so you’ve got A little relevancy on yeah that Will help you gain traffic and in the End it really actually that At the end gives you the best chance of Even maybe backdooring your way into That type of a term I like it for a lot of reasons as well We do that a lot i mean first of all for Link building right when you do If a key word is competitive it means That the top pages have a lot of links Which means you can outreach to these People and have a chance to get a link So first of all can help with your Domain authority Second of all i think it can influence Your Domain relevancy so like it’s like i’m Going to take an example in the hosting Niche like let’s say You check the top hosting sites so Hosting review sites Um people everyone has a bluehost review Right It’s like even though i have no chance To rank for bluehost review usually if i Started the site in 90s i would write a Bluehost review Just because it’s literally a trade that Every successful site in that niche has

It feels like it just increases my Relevancy if i want to be considered in The same pool of websites you know Um so very often we write content we Have zero chance of ranking for folder It’s like Actually that case study site that we Sold like a year and a half ago Had a lot of these pages actually like There was at least 25 pages that had Pretty much no chance of ranking but They were here because It was a very competitive affiliate Niche and we needed I i believed at this time that we needed To have these these Pages to essentially belong into the Same group of people that we aspire to Have the same traffic as Um sorry honestly but then when you when You say They’re not gonna rank they’re not gonna Rank for that one term but when you look At them in search console they’re Ranking for hundreds of Or thousands yeah sometimes you don’t Get much traffic like To be frank when i remember these pages Some of them it was quite pathetic which I think they were getting But i still believe it was still helping Like it’s like i don’t mind Like i just trade as like you know an Initial fixed cost

Of establishing your relevancy as a Domain um Another thing is like for very Competitive keywords most urls are Several years old Um and it’s like i don’t know if it’s a Factor it might just be The time that it takes to accumulate the Links but regardless what i know is that The best way to age The url is for it to exist and so just Making it And because it exists you start building Internal links to it you mention it in a Guest post etc It slowly builds up authority even if You’re very far away from what you need For that keyword Yeah one day eventually you know it’s Kind of like your saving account you Just put a little bit a little bit a Little bit and eventually it just grows You know it’s like Trade it like that for these big Keywords i think so i i tend to write Yeah Like usually maybe 20 of the pages on a New site would be for keywords that Are quite unrealistic within even the First year and a half actually Well you know the only page they can’t Rank is the one that’s not up You know yeah that’s what it comes down To like well i can’t

You know if you don’t have a page for it Just simply then yeah you’re right It cannot you cannot rank for it yeah But like you write another article and You link to it naturally et cetera and Eventually it just builds up i know Also this page can just be a hub for Other pages often so it’s like you Redistribute the link juice well you’re Not using it to rank for that page etc And it doesn’t matter that much so i Think uh yeah and also Very often you know it’s like it happens Quite often i’m like oh this game was Quite easy i write for it and we never Rank for it right it’s just i don’t know We’re doing everything it’s not Happening but very often the opposite Happens too right It’s like you think you have no chance And then All of a sudden you’re ranking for that Keyword and you’re like well i guess i Was wrong Um no that’s when you’re like i’m an Internet god And yeah that’s when you take all the Credit but it’s not your fault Yeah but it happens quite often actually It happened um i reviewed um A done-for-you site building service Called alpha investors Um a couple a couple of months ago right And literally in the review i’m like

I don’t understand why they wrote for That keyword there’s no chance it will Rank i think it was like how to install A urinal something i’d show their Website Something like that i was like there’s No way there’s like home depot et cetera On that page Um and and guess what eric it ranks Number one So now everyone can go look at that side Go look at that review and be like yep That’s the guy that Followed his homepage links you know Gets out of the park every time that’s Great It’s okay i should share some some Victories as well otherwise people Always think i’m really bad you know Um it makes me laugh to be honest it’s Like i mean Overall it’s like we’ve done quite well 2020 pretty happy with where we’re at But it’s just Funny to realize how often we get wrong As well and to not get too much of an Ego around Around success as well you know well and Yeah exactly and the other thing too is That you learn from it you learn from You realize okay That was wrong now let’s move forward And do it right talking about something That you learned last time you were

Telling me you were experimenting Around really cool sponsored links and That you believed it was maybe passing Link juice Ah does it buy singers yeah So we’re still on that um i’ve tested a I’ve been playing with it a bunch so One thing that i was looking at is People talk about that it like creates a Dead zone You know that um like if you if you say Like uh You know anchor text is a signal you Know the clickable text on a page Is a strong signal but if you have that Anchor text and it’s with a rel Sponsored Um a page won’t index or it won’t be any Kind of factor and that’s simply not True One thing that we did find which was Very interesting is that If you mark a link reload sponsored it Will not help another page index So google’s favorite way of indexing is Through links through crawling from one Link To another link to discover them that Way that is the way that it prefers If you have a rel uh sponsored link To an orphan page that orphan page will Not index So where i think maybe people see A problem you know when they’re saying

That nothing’s happening or or Um it’s not as effective is is certainly Within that Indexing aspect but the rank factor in Terms of passing Jews it’s still there okay that’s quite Interesting so essentially you can You know white hardware buyer links if You buy a rail core sponsored link which Is considered advertising Like google literally says if you pay For links put a product called sponsored Um and then this helps your rankings so I could literally do Outreach pay people with very core Sponsor links and rank websites Well that’s that’s exactly when you look At the rules you know they say no buying Links Right yeah that’s pretty clear and There’s no getting around that either Because you can’t like Exchange you know services or exchange Something or You can incentivize yeah exactly but you Are Always allowed to advertise yeah yeah That’s That’s it and uh it has to pass Editorial review Meaning that um it has been reviewed and It’s there Within advertisement you’re allowed to Do native advertisement

Native advertisement simply is Advertisement that appears to be genuine Like it it’s supposed to be there but It’s not a native ad is like you know When you’re scrolling through facebook And you look at something that looks Like a post But it’s that’s not a post that’s that’s Native advertisement Um but that’s what a guest post is a Guest post is native advertisement where It appears as though this site for Whatever reason Has decided to write a blog post about This particular product or this service Or this thing over here That’s native advertisement they they Certainly did not for whatever the Reason they decided to do that was money Um but you’re allowed to do that you’re Allowed to advertise your products your Services and you’re allowed to do it in Within native advertisement The key is that um you work towards Getting those links that are going to Pass juice Marked as well sponsored and once you’ve Done that uh you’re completely in the Clear So would you record completely within The guidelines what’s that Would you recommend people do that yeah I would yeah Yeah so it’s like let’s say you have a

Client that’s like yeah i want i want a Lot of links but i want to be white hats So you just do that yeah okay sure Interesting But the thing is like the risk that you Take is that google changes the role in The future right and it’s like because The links are Links are tagged they could devalue them Later maybe if google decides to do that To be i mean that’s Pretty awful right if you’re kind of Playing within the rules and they decide To do that But what’s to stop everybody at that Point that you know this is an arms race You know we just take the tag off yeah Yeah Yeah yeah but it’s interesting it’s Interesting because it really opens up Essentially link buying to white hot People people who are against that You can do it within the rules within The rules that google wrote themselves And that’s not so i might try actually Next year like who knows yeah the only Yeah just um yeah if you are advertising Your stuff you’re allowed to do it Um now there you could manipulate things Because uh You can’t do anything that’s Automatically generated meaning you push A button And now you’ve got a thousand someone

Needs to check the content and approve It be like that’s great for my site Basically so it can’t be automatically Generated Um it cannot be part of a scheme and That’s a pretty vague term Um but i guess i can see somebody’s Wheels turning somewhere like well i Could just do this and put real sponsor On and That that’s instantly as you started Doing that that’s called a scheme It’s probably whatever you’re thinking It would if yeah if you’re thinking Automation i’m not gonna do anything Except no it’s like the way i’m thinking About it is more like outreach like Let’s say someone’s like uh Like hey i wanna do guess what they’re Like well it’s gonna cost you two Hundred dollars or whatever then you’re Like well okay fine but can you Sponsored on my links because i want to Be sure that we both respect google’s Rules and we don’t get in trouble Then you can do that and then Essentially stay nuclear and probably Increase your exactly anyway and then You’re in the air in the clear Exactly and then these people check your Guest post and it’s editorially approved And you you pass all the rules and it’s Not completely automated et cetera so i Think

I think if people took that approach It’s a it’s a big opportunity for like Risk adverse companies people who want To like play in a long term but Would could use an seo boost and Struggled with link building And have the budget uh yeah yeah i think These things might cost They should cost you more really when You think about it but um when you Decide to do this In this manner you’re probably going to Change your focus a little bit into Actually trying to get traffic out of it Because when you when your mind switches To advertisement Well we need to get some value out of This and while the link is good Uh if we’re advertising our product you Know this is what the mindset is that We’re doing We really want to get somewhere where we Could actually get some clicks yeah and What i think you’ll find is that that Mind shift to traffic Is a good thing you’ll end up making Better seo decisions because if you’re Not just focused on that one like You know you’re fighting over five dr Points but you’re like well you know What this one’s actually getting a lot Of traffic and if we Advertise here we have a better chance Of actually getting people to our site

That we want um you’ll end up making so That mind switched to traffic over Link equity while doing these ads i Think you’ll end up with just a better Strategy overall So basically you can send your product To people and then they review it if You’re an e-commerce and then they they Rather Sponsor link to you and you can even Make them affiliates or whatever like Many things can be done basically so Yeah yeah i agree i think as well if There’s a manual review it looks like You were after traffic and now after Links You’ll be a lot a lot safer than if it Just looks like a link scheme basically So It’s like if you’re that risk adverse Type of people then it’s It’s a better way of going after it um And if you’re gonna pay for links anyway Just go for the best ones anyway go for The highest quality sites etc like you Might as well Um to be perfectly honest i think Traffic is a better metric than any kind Of link Tool anyway i actually noticed that when I promote content and i’m able to Generate you know a few thousand this to A piece of content it ranks Really fast and much better anyway um so

I don’t know if you feel that way it’s Like it’s hard to like scientifically Explain that but like i can see that When i generate some hype around some Content then A index is much faster it shows up for Its keyword much faster Sometimes it’s a temporary boost and it Just kind of like decreases after the Hype is dead you know but it still stays Higher than it would have probably If we did no promotion that’s a feeling How to Really test that properly i think yeah i I’m with you on that you see the same Thing with um a social media blast where You do a bunch of facebook ads or Twitter ads or whatever ads And then a bunch of relevant traffic Flows in Because you’ve targeted people and They’re the people that you want Um things do better you know that Traffic coming in seems to So you could say like oh it’s the link From facebook i doubt that Uh but what i could see what i think a Better argument would be what it is it’s The traffic that’s coming in Yeah it’s like the the chrome data That’s collected or something like this And and Google sees it that way or something um But yeah like i think i did it um

I did it also with uh i tested on ctr so I worked really well as well like Published an article Promoted it started ranking and then i Told people to google the query and Click on the article and i I think we got number three or four for The keyword fastest wordpress theme In life not too shabby three or four Days We didn’t stay there like um i think now We’re on page two or something like it’s Not it’s not nearly as good as it used To be It’s one of these things where it’s like By getting the hype then getting people To google and click then we’re Essentially Like yeah it was a pretty good keyword Um And uh and we got top five basically in Uh in a few days So there there is some some truth into That i think Yeah um another thing that people have Been talking about this year and it was A tweet by Cyrus shepherd that made me look into This is there was this case study about Shared hosting killing rankings um that People i mean that essentially like they Moved the site from shadow hosting to Some kind of vps and uh presumably went Up i think it was on the

Like same side style as you like you Know imaginary keywords Um i think that was that kind of test uh No it’s not that they picked they made Ten sites five of them were shared Hosting Five of them were on uh their own server And Like four out of five sites on their own Server outrank Their sites on shared hosting so i Wanted to know if you tested that how You feel about it et cetera et cetera I haven’t looked at it specifically i Would say one thing Five and five is not a large test yeah At all Like that that’s an extremely small test And um when you think about a coin flip Out of ten you can see a coin going four Times one way and one time another That’s an easy thing to see In terms of probability um that said i’m Not a huge fan of shared hosting I think uh more than anything and i’m Not Overly concerned about bad neighborhoods Or or those types of things like that I don’t really have a lot of stock in That but Um i think the issue you run into is Downtime You know and who gets it up if things go Down on the other hand though

Um they are easier to use right You know they are easier and they’re Cheaper to use and if you’re just Getting started that’s probably where You’re starting and And you can’t always change hosting for Sure um I would think about in terms of cost if You can afford something that’s in the 15 Range over the five dollar range i would Probably do it just to just to be on the Safe side of it but Fair enough i think there’s a marginal Benefit but i don’t think it’s it’s one Of these things As we talked about in the beginning of The podcast right it’s like people Ignore their content and links et cetera But they focus on like site speed or Co-work right now Yeah i totally agree with that this is Something to think about Keep an eye on but is it the be all to End all like is it a top three factor No yeah exactly like it’s like Personally i recommend beginners do that Because Uh there’s often like limited in Resources so it’s like even like You know basically you’re saving a Hundred to two hundred dollars a year Let’s say difference Um from like a cheap dedicated server to

A cheap show hosting um but like for Them it can be the difference like for Like three more pages on their site that They can outsource to a writer or Something Um true so is that worth more to get Those pages to get the keywords to get a Bit wider If one of these is a hit like you know What i mean it’s like and then then you Just change your hosting once you have a Hit you know Um so yeah i definitely see that Argument for sure Um yeah i tend to recommend this but Like it’s funny to see like seos turn on At the same time i’ve tried the cloud Ways with volterr high frequency which i Think starts at 14 dollars per month And it’s the fastest host wordpress i’ve Ever experienced in my life actually so It’s very nice it feels like a desktop App to use wordpress you know And it’s like i was like oh this is a Nice quality of life i’d pay just for That you know it’s like i don’t really Care about the rankings I just i just want my workplace to feel Zippy you know Um i like that your quality of life goes Up because your website’s faster That’s true psychological benefit alone It makes me want to work on it more as Well you know because it’s just more

Responsive it’s just like uh it’s I hate it waiting like two seconds Between each wordpress uh Like screen to load it especially like When you’re the back end trying to edit Stuff Yeah it’s terrible like like yeah when You’re doing seo you’re trying to Re-optimize many pages you’re like Opening all of these et cetera i hate it You know auto hacker is definitely a big Offender now it looks It’s really fast in front end but the Back end is an absolute nightmare Last time we talked about uh content Hubs and reverse siloing you explained You know the whole pyramid and where You’re like oh i create my support Content first and i have this link to My main page that ranks etc um did that Change or do you still Do the same it’s still working like Gangbusters i mean It still works incredibly well um And we see it time and time again with With client sides just putting it into Play in the field Um they turn into little engines of good You know it’s it’s just continual cycles Of good you know where The the the supporting place of fresh Air in 2020 you know Yeah exactly you know just like the Sporting page will start to rank on its

Own it starts to get some traffic in All of a sudden it picks up some links That we weren’t trying for and then the Juice gets passed around and it just it Creates Um a better and better environment Something that i’ve been working on Recently with the team Is to kind of refocus a little bit on The target page and we’ve got our Primary keyword But how can we really maximize this now That we’re getting you know We’ve got all this little link just Coming in and we’ve got the relevancy Thrown Flowing through and things how can we Really maximize our target page And so something that i’m working with Is how to create the most relevant page Possible um and a trick Or a technique that i’ve run into is That Search for your primary keyword where You’re going to write this page let’s go To the bottom look at the related Keywords pick the one you like the best And by the best i mean the direction you Want this page to go Or the one might be most relevant to What you’re trying to do so you choose That one Click on that one scroll to the bottom Of that one and look at

Their related searches so now you have Two sets of related searches one for the Primary and one for your lead H2 or your lead uh key uh Secondary keyword find the the The terms that match between these two You’ll probably find three or four maybe Three Those then become the h2s on your page The sections that you’re going to do on Your page from there The ones that match click one more time And go to their related searches And then that’s what you’re gonna fill In content-wise in each of those Sections so those are the the points You’re going to hit As you’re writing as you’re filling out Those paragraph sections You will end up with the most Semantically related page Ever and it has the best opportunity to Rank for the most amount of keywords And you didn’t have to do any magic you Didn’t have to do any special keyword Research or Need a special tool you let google show You What to write um and then those other There might be some other terms that are Filled in around there that um that you Like but they just don’t quite fit With the direction that you want to go But they still exist

Those become your supporting pages Because they are still semantically Related They’re still in the same ballpark and It’s the kind of thing then you can Write about to then Your whole silo is semantically related Do you do it to every page or just your Main page like do you Just the main page the you know it’s It’s it’s the kind of thing that you’re Investing a lot of time and energy And money into this content you have to Do it from an roi perspective what’s Going to give us the most return for the For the supporting pages i’m just Answering that i’m not going into that Kind of detail Unless unless it takes off you know you Can have a supporting page that like all Of a sudden takes off Like well now this is a this is a Primary page I like to throw a page and see how it Does and then just kind of like You know even sometimes throw like 5 600 Words and you’d be surprised Um and if you saw like tiny pages you’re Able to throw To just launch a lot of them you know It’s kind of like this uh Throw everything at the wall and see What sticks and just invest a little Budget into that actually yeah for sure

You know don’t fight it You know um yeah we’re we’re in a Business with best guesses So you give your best guess and then Go with what’s working you know like and If your best guess didn’t work it’s okay You know people get mad when like they Realize that the search volume in qr Tools is not exact or it’s not the Reality or something like this How can yeah very often it’s terrible um And they’re like how can we how can we Find good keywords or how can we find a Niche etc It’s like literally all the data in seo Probably including webmasters console is Inaccurate Uh including google analytics as well Actually i think google analytics is Is like if you check your a lot of Service that’s against analytics for Example You’re often quite surprised that um That you get quite a bit more obviously There’s a lot of bot traffic etc but I can imagine browsers not firing Javascript and like a blocky cookie Blocking Extensions and things like that that Would also reduce your traffic So yeah it’s uh i think it’s a Realization maybe people should Make at the end of this year is that We’ve been lied to the whole time

And all these exact numbers that you see Well that’s not maybe like You’ve been given a false sense of Confidence yeah because you know they Like they put like you know 367 or Something like you know it’s like It feels exactly right and then it’s Like actually You just made that up there’s probably Like a dice roll for the last number On some tools you know it’s just Randomly picking up picking that up or Something but yeah Um yeah i like this uh anything else That change in your in the way you do Silos Uh no i mean just um It’s it’s such a huge part of my Technique when when doing seo that it’s It’s something that we determine from The outset when we determine a target Page we decided to start optimizing that Page and what we’re going to do for it Um the very first thing that we’re doing Is doing keyword research to determine What we’re going to use For our silos and we’re going to create Them and um in case anybody Is confused i’m not talking about url Structure silos of physical silo Where you know you’ve got like comm Slash product slash name a product and Then you’ve got Those child pages i’m not you can have

That that’s totally fine and And and that’s great um what i’m talking About is a virtual silo where the The relationship is created by links in The content So not links in the nav bar on the Sidebar or the footer I don’t worry about those these are just Links that are within body content Between Pages on your site they can be pages They can be post they can be Whatever doesn’t matter they should live Anywhere on the site Um but the idea is that they have this Relationship that you’ve created by Links pointing to each other And then back up to a target page we Have a podcast where we talked a lot More about that so i put a card on Youtube so people can go and check it Out And uh and that’s why i didn’t go that Much into this because we essentially Did last time If if nothing has changed i know that Makes sense here’s one thing that has Changed in my teaching if i’m sorry to Cut you off So people i know people have seen that That previous one And then i’ll get a thing that says um i Followed your silo method and nothing Working or something like that right

Like okay show me And it’s not right you know they Because the content that we’re telling Here and the this is not every page on Your site but these are very Specifically generous They link very specifically like well This is linking out to nine things And i’ll hear well but and as soon as You’re doing like a well but then you Haven’t done it correctly You know i mean like yeah you might have A very valid reason for doing it but you Haven’t done it this way And so um uh If you want to do these types of things Um you really need to be You have to it’s a grinding game you Know you have to Grind and say this is what we’re going To do and this is why we’re going to do It and stick with it as soon as you get Like a well but then then you’re not Doing it you’ve created your own method Which could be very valid it could very Well be a lot yeah In our course people are some like you Know they come on facebook they’re like Oh i did this i didn’t really do this i Used this other tool and i did also that And it’s like it’s not working and i’m Like You know it’s not exactly what we were Telling you to do so it’s like

Yeah it’s just these things work for us But It’s like people tend to be quite Specific in the way they do their things And actually we do things quite Differently Um from each other and probably both get Good results but like Um when you’re trying to pick someone Else’s method try to follow it properly Basically i think it will help people’s Success i think Um and pushing it i personally like um Mac now what i found how works best for Our sites in terms of building the site Structure Is i put all the commercial content of The site on pages and i built like that Hard cycle structure Um so like you know again we’re Reviewing hosting maybe it’s gonna be Hostingreview.com shared slash Reviews slash siteground for example and Then slash reviews slash hostgator et Cetera and i’ll just have all of these And then the slash shed will be best Shared hosting and link out to these et Cetera and like Those create hub pages where you can Build an accent yeah I like that a lot so i do that and then My info content Most of it ends up on the blog so i use Posts and

And then like i might be using Categories once i start having Too many of them um but at the beginning It’s just a blog feed basically and i Just use that And it just links in content to to Whatever is in the hard siloed section Of the site and They’re quite separated actually so i Tend to do it that way Um it’s doing okay for us basically yeah Um No it sounds good to me but the thing is Though like even though they’re Separated like that If you wanted to start using some of Those posts and you don’t have to use All of them Not every page on your site needs to be In a silo Yeah there are a lot of reasons to have Other pages to do other things one page Could link to three target pages that’s That’s fine that’s great but it’s not a Silo that we’re talking about but Within uh whichever like the blog post Is separate you can still create your Virtual silo out of that Every so often some of them are linking In a way and to the user the user Doesn’t care the user doesn’t see what You’re doing but the idea is that google Does because it’s crawling through those Links

Yeah for sure and yeah it’s like that’s Exactly what we do we just we’re quite Free on the info content we create and Then we link up to whatever is relevant Like Let’s say wikipedia would you know it’s Like we don’t try to like be like oh It’s only in the shared hosting section No it’s like if we’re talking about Uh i don’t know if we’re talking about Uh let’s say we made a blog post uh Page speedwall 2020 we copied the same Site on 20 hostings and saw which one Was the fastest We’ll link out to whatever hosting Whether it’s in shared or dedicated Uh from that provided is relevant you Know um So yeah that’s i like it it works quite Well for me um I think we’re gonna slowly close it off Did is there anything that I should have asked about 2020 that um That i did not uh Um how was 2020 for you uh In terms of business uh it was our best Yeah actually in terms of revenue so That’s so it’s like We’re doing we’re doing quite well um We’re lucky because a lot of people are Struggling Um so you know be humble with whatever Success you have we have several members That did well as well like posted on the

Facebook group and so on So yeah it’s kind of funny how the term The world has taken but obviously online Business has profited A lot from that and uh we were i think At the right time at the right place But authentically it’s like i don’t say That this was a mastermind move or Something like this it’s just like well I was planning for this exactly So it’s yeah we’re lucky hopefully next Year stays at least as good and then Then you know i’ll be happy but um so Far so good how about you Yeah this was our best year as well and Um You can see you can continue to see Opportunity which is interesting um Uh it’s easy to see that uh economies Might not be as strong Coming out of this pandemic that that’s That’s i don’t think you have to be An economic stage to see that coming but Uh with such a shift online companies That were really i think reluctant to Invest In an online platform are now doing that And uh anybody who questioned it like Yeah you need it because when you have a Situation where your clientele cannot Come to your Business anymore you must find another Way So even if there is an economic downturn

Even if things are a little bumpy Over the next couple years i still see a Lot of growth in what we’re doing There’s still a lot of opportunity There’s a lot of opportunity to jump in Uh do client side work build your own Sites um different types of forms of Marketing Uh this that or the other like there’s There’s still tons of space For growth here and it’s it’s um it’s a Good spot to be Yeah i agree i think two things will Happen two things that i’m Quite excited about first habits have Changed a lot of people who did not buy Online Had to buy online and that i think some Of it’s going to stay at least Yeah for sure absolutely and the second Thing Is actually interesting is in terms of Employees right because like Now a ton of people have experienced Remote work and We are remote company for us and um it Means a lot more people are now Considering these positions And i’m expecting a higher quality of Candidates when we post jobs and try to Get people To work with us because there’s just a Much larger pool of people that’s Interested in online jobs or has

Had some experience this year you know Whereas before it was more of a fringe Thing it was like walking online felt a Little bit Weird and it’s not a real job and Everything Well now everyone’s real job is online So The thing is you have to get used to it When you’re forced to get used to it you Get used to it you know and then you Figure out how to make it work um Something i was thinking about too is a Lot of people have like a 45 minute Commute And then they take an hour for lunch and When you stay home You don’t have that commute either way You know and plus Probably 15 minutes probably on either Side of that commute in terms of getting Ready getting in the car Getting out of the car you know that’s So like you know and then maybe take a Shorter lunch simply because You know you’re eating at home and you Didn’t have to drive somewhere and and All that You probably end up with more disposable Time You know you have more time to invest in In an online type of thing where you Could Take that time and go and do something

So and you can do it anywhere you want As well i think it Might take people of cities it might Reduce Uh the expenses for commercial real Estate for companies paying for offices Maybe they’re about oh for sure Um so it’s like your workforce could Show up two times a week And just rotate them through and have a Much smaller office and share the desks Way smaller yeah so i think i think it’s Gonna actually the Is gonna like reduce the population city Centers and take people a bit More yeah et cetera which probably a Healthy thing to do actually Probably um so yeah it’s uh it’s Overall will our lucky to be where we Are i can’t tell where the world’s going But i’m not too worried for the future For people who do what we do I agree that’s all i agree so so far so Good let’s uh let’s End the 2020 on a positive note and Anywhere you want to send people after This podcast Um well i just launched a new course uh Okay white hat seo you can get it Exclusively at internetmarketing.gold Okay so go check it out and again thank You for coming it was fun it’s always Fun to do a podcast This is great even though it’s the

Second time we do this one It was still a bit different it’s not Like the first time it felt like Exactly it was pretty good anyway thank You very much uh if you enjoyed this Podcast don’t forget to Subscribe on youtube thumb up bell all That stuff And you can also subscribe on all the Audio platforms so spotify google Podcast etc etc Thank you for listening and we’ll see You next week with mark bye [Music] You