If you have done any kind of guest post Outreach or white hat link building You’ve probably come across this answer A million times Yes we do accept guest posts but you Need to pay a 50 Admin fee for us to process your request And post a guest post on our site so yes Despite google telling you not to buy Links Paid links are a reality in the market And they’re everywhere so in today’s Episode we’re asking the question Should you pay for links let’s get Started [Music] Hey everyone welcome to the authority Hacker podcast today we’re going to Just go right into topic and we are Going to be talking About paid links because it’s actually a Topic that we should probably have Talked about a little bit earlier we’re Like 250 podcasts in And we haven’t even uh you know Addressed that or we cannot mention it In podcast but not on its own And i think it’s something that’s very Important if you’re doing seo but what’s Even more important if you’re doing so Is to know how mark is going so how is It going mark Oh it’s going good thanks i just wanted To show off my uh
Fancy new ahrefs uh coffee mug So uh yeah the swag collection continues To grow Yeah it’s like uh yeah people are Spending millions on the Onslaught to us two years now and send You stuff every day Uh uh how many packages do you get now Do you get do you get more packages Like no like let’s let’s not pull this Out of the proportion That one person contacted me last week But since then that’s it nothing So how disappointing um otherwise i’m Doing well thanks Cool uh let’s just jump into the podcast As i said i want us to stop rambling uh I want to start getting into the topic And so i think when we start talking About paid links i think the It’s a good point to start where google Starts like what they tell you Officially and um what the webmasters Guideline tell people should do And even like you know a lot of people Argue that like link building on its own Is Called gray hat and google is against it Etc so i think let’s just go into that And check what google says about it on The link schemes Page on google if you just go to google And search for link schemes This is basically all the naughty stuff
That you shouldn’t be doing And they say and i quote the following Are examples of link schemes which can Negatively impact a site’s Rankings in search results and the first One at the very top of the list Buying or selling links that pass Pagerank This includes exchanging money for links Or posts that contain Links so that is their initial position Uh that they really don’t seem to Approve of People buying links There is though a another interesting Quote from john mueller who’s the head Of the Web spam team i believe uh at google and He’s The basically the face of uh of google When it comes to Saying what’s okay and what’s not okay From link building seo type perspective Uh so he he said i picked this up i Think it was on search engine journal um I found the quote but he said Uh this is something that we also see a Lot of sites Do things that aren’t really necessary For their website and for web search They’ll go off and buy a ton of links And then we ignore all those links so A couple of interesting things going on Here google
Clearly doesn’t want people buying links I mean they go to Great efforts to sort of dissuade people From From doing that um why is that though Like do what what are your thoughts on That Um i just think it’s hard for them to Tell what is the pay link and what is Not so It’s like this dissuasion campaign is uh Is Is a method that they have at least Maybe it was hard historically maybe not A bit better etc It certainly certainly seems like if Okay so let’s say they were able to tell What’s peddling and what’s not and Count them all fine then it wouldn’t Affect The search out like they wouldn’t need To say don’t do it they just wouldn’t Count it and Everyone could kind of go about their Life as normal but The only reason that they would say Don’t do it is because on some level it Works And we’ve seen that through other People’s sites that we know who we know Buy links and it’s quite a common Practice In in online marketing that that Will buy buy links yeah and the vast
Majority of people doing it Do relatively well we’ll get into some Of the finer distinctions about Do they work and you know how much they Work and how can you tell their work a Little bit later in the show But i just want to point out that there Are certainly this google certainly Seems to want to dissuade people from Doing it my suspicion is because It like messes up their search algorithm If People do it because it still works to An extent How much that’s still debatable i think That’s where the really cool sponsor Comes in it’s like they intend to train Algorithms to understand Well like essentially paid links and Like some people will tag the links But maybe enough for them to like try to Recognize What makes a paid link page or something But i i suspect it’s still not going to Be that successful because The kind of people who will put really Cool sponsor that are not the same kind Of people who will not put really cool Sponsors so it’s like Still going to be like it’s going to Create more segments of people More than it’s going to help them so It’s like it’s a bit of a tricky one and Actually kal roof tested it and found
That i mean it was like Around a year ago now so things might Have changed but found that really cool Sponsored Uh links seemed to pass pagerank anyway Um So it’s it’s it’s quite interesting Because if that’s the case then it kind Of goes against everything that’s in the Link scheme page On google you know um some Yeah but like i believe i believe it Works like definitely i’ve seen it many Times You can go on many seo facebook groups And you will see people buying links and Services and ranking quite well on Google Um i think there’s also um You know there’s also a category of People who would just like essentially There’s buying links and buying links Right it’s like you can buy links Like whatever link wheels or shitty pbms Etc Or you can buy you know high quality Guest posts on good sites and not buy Too many but buy good ones etc And i think the the people who buy links Has been quite overrepresented by people Who buy shitty links and just spam their Website And so it’s kind of like the vision we Have from these people but
A lot of people like i’m pretty sure the Site that we sold A year and a half ago now they buy links When i look at their link graph for Example and the site’s doing Quite well overall they’ve got more Traffic than when we sold it et cetera But they do it in a clean way basically So i think yeah you’ve got Google is definitely afraid of that and That’s why they’re Policing it another thing i want to add To this is that Lately i haven’t seen a lot of people Get Penalized or lose their rankings for Paid links not as much as i Saw you know three four five years ago Um i think that google kind of like gave Up a little bit on Trying to catch people individually but Rather tries to catch them through Algorithm updates And so what that has done from what i’ve Seen is that Overall people who buy links tend to Benefit from more stability than they Did in the past i don’t think it’s as Stable as like if you don’t buy links And if you’re super clean Um but i think that if i remember like Yeah Three to five years ago people would Just like swing like crazy by links etc
Nowadays it’s like um i i see a lot of People doing Getting a pretty smooth ride by pioneers Basically so i think google searching Might have changed actually i don’t Think they don’t fight it i think they Might have changed the way they try to Fight it I think that rather than penalizing Sites just completely they just discount These these links and they won’t tell You they’ve discounted them Yeah but what it does is the cup of Traffic is just much smoother you know Like it’s not like Crazy swings etc maybe you don’t Increase as much because they discount More links But you will like it will feel more Linear and just less Crazy basically well john mueller even Said in that quote i had uh earlier on In the the show Um though they’ll go off and buy a ton Of links and then we’ll ignore all those Links so he’s basically saying oh we Just ignore the links now Yeah i can see that which which would Make sense and but like they don’t catch All of them let’s say like You know i can’t tell how much so don’t Quote me but like 50 Of links still pass through google Didn’t catch them and they still help
People ranking And that’s kind of the way i’m seeing it Like you’re probably wasting a bunch of Money when you buy links to maybe Popular services etc But at the same time it doesn’t mean That the ones that didn’t get caught Don’t work just to put some of this into Perspective as well Uh when we first started doing seo back In Of 2009 2010 uh Paid links it wasn’t really paid links In the sense it was like these links Networks Link vana and uh build my rank and all This kind of It was much less far far worse And yeah that would allow really Terrible sites to Shoot up the rankings no problem that All sort of died off in a Like 2012 sort of time um and then from That point that’s when pbn’s Uh and paid links to an extent really Started to Really start to sort of come come to Fruition a lot We back then we had a different business We had An agency and as part of that agency we Would buy links for clients Sometimes and we would also Sell links as a as a productized service
Essentially so people will come to us And buy guest posts and And that and we we paid for a lot of These and we didn’t really hide it Either i mean people knew what they were They were getting there was some Transparency there So we have quite a bit of experience in Doing this in the earlier days Since we’ve started authority hacker and Other authority sites we haven’t paid For a single link on any of those sites So far And we’ll tell you if we if we change That we’ve we’ve always said that But i just think it’s interesting that We have this kind of Very much anti-buying links perspective At the moment And i think when we did a survey of the Authority hacker pro members uh there Was Within the majority of them do said they Do pay for links was it like 82 said They did 48 said they don’t ever do it um they Said they paid for links but they paid Foldings when they outreach and people Request for money versus Uh i’ll tell you the results 82 say they Pay for links when they are outreach Which means they don’t use any kind of Service or anything they just reach out To websites
If websites ask for money they pay them Um There is 48 of them that say they don’t Ever pay for links There is sorry three of them that say That they pay Following services so like people who Have a guest posting service whatever And Some of these linked services will sell You paid links Someone will tell you that they’re paid Links and others once uh so That’s that’s still getting at the end Of the day perhaps whether you’re one Step removed from the Decision that’s my beef against the Industry by the way when Like i don’t mind people selling paid Links as long as the customers know They’re getting paid links I’m just really annoyed at people that Pretend they sell guest posts And then essentially buy links which Again it depends on your definition but Normally your guest post is not paid or It should be like a Promoted post sponsored post something Like this which is fine if you know what You’re buying but i hate when people Like to Like people who follow us our readers Etc And to try to charge more because
Usually links you don’t pay for you Can charge more as a link provider than Links you pay for and so essentially It’s a way for them to build their Margins And take your money and sell you Something that you didn’t really Intend to buy um which just leads to Surprises for people you know I think what’s also interesting is There’s a number of different ways to Classify Paid links so i don’t know how my email Gets on on these but Probably once a week or every every Other week I’ll get an email with like a long list Like someone will say like dear sir here Are Places i can get you links ten dollars Each or something like that And there’s a big list of of websites um I i’ve never replied to any of those i Don’t really know who these people are Doing this but um those types of links And The types of links you’ll get from like A service or a gig on fiverr Um there there are still paid links in The same way that outreaching to Like a really high domain authority Website And them asking you for a fee to post Your guest post
Is a paid link but they’re not the same Really they’re they’re they’re quite Different In in reality so we just have to be a Little bit careful that when we talk About paid links that we don’t group All of them yeah into the same category Yeah i mean if you think about it like You can again like the way most Authority hacker pro members do it is They do the classic link building Methods Guest posting skyscraper etc and they’re Willing to pay If there is an opportunity for a link They’re really eyeing that looks like a Good quality link And i think these kind of links they’re Indistinguishable from Um from three links um provided The site doesn’t get caught in one of This google thing or whatever It’s like it looks the same if you get a Skyscraper link through paying for it Or not paying for it the only difference Is like the paper log and probably the Email conversation but I really doubt google would go ahead and Read your emails to catch you Uh buying links i think in terms of like Pr for them in terms of like privacy and All that stuff that would be so much More Of a cost for the company than catching
A few people buying links If you prove that they use your email For that so i wouldn’t panic too much Even if you’re using gmail about this And on the other side you have people Buying like shitty pbns or like sites That like You know people buy expired domains for Example and like put the default WordPress blog and then just spam Articles on it And sell links on that um like for Example we tried a bunch of link Building services a while ago and Uh sites like services like the hot for Example were caught doing that kind of Stuff it was low quality links and so on We’re gonna make friends again i know Um but yeah it’s not the same level And i think you can’t group people the Same way and that’s what i was trying to Explain a bit earlier when i said A lot of people who spam their site and Buy a lot of shitty links tend to be The typical image we have of people Buying links but there’s also really Successful people who Buy the links you get for free quote Unquote but they get so much more like When we do outreach when you do Skyscraper right for any uh website or Guest post or something like What percentage of people would say okay For a link where we don’t pay versus
How many percentage of people would ask Us for money you would say What wait what percentage of people Would post a link for Free like people who don’t ask us money Versus people who would do the link If we paid them some money yeah so Nowadays That there are more people who asking From asking for money Than will post it for for free uh that Didn’t Used to be the case like three four Years ago um But i guess over time as website owners Have realized that Seos and other people value these these Links they’ve They’ve realized they can cash in on it So many of them have I would say though like at the topper i Mean In some niches it’s like 19 and Somebody’s just like 99 Of them will ask for money um we’re not In any of those Spaces at the moment uh but in uh I’d say in general like two-thirds would Would ask for money One-third wouldn’t of of those people Who are saying kind of Yes there’s some other excuses and stuff As well Um or where people would would you kind
Of go in with like a different different Angle or if someone asked for a link Exchange so There’s lots of different scenario Potential scenarios here but Asking for money is currently i would Say the number one Response that we get so here’s my next Question then like let’s say we want to Build a hundred links to a page right And we’re doing Skyscraper for it if we were paying for Links do you think The end price for our link building Would become cheaper or more expensive More because we essentially need to pay For We need to do three times more outreach But Um to get the same amount of feelings Provided we find enough targets right Yeah i agree uh so the the target Limitation is probably a A bigger issue than the amount we We pay i think we realize the value of Of good links and how much that kind of Adds to The success profitability and value of a Website so There’s not really a it’s not really Like we have a budget to spend on link Building we’ll only spend that like if We can spend more To make more like we’ll keep doing that
We’ll take that trade every time Uh so yeah i wouldn’t i wouldn’t really Think of it so much in in those terms But unquestionably if we if we like Turned that switch and said all right Team let’s uh let’s start paying for all The links we can Like we would get a much higher Conversion rate From our outreach and we get be able to Reach 100 links in that scenario much Much Quicker but I think that there are some big risks in Just kind of like unlocking paid links Free Like to to a team like that and we saw This back when we had our Our um link building service in like 2012 Of time 13 time and that is that Once you allow your staff to to just Go for paid links then it’s kind of like The path of least resistance and they’ll Just go for that every time they won’t Spend that extra effort Negotiating and building a relationship And like really like Communicating well with people and this Can Have a detrimental effect on your Ability to acquire links at the very High end from like the top top Sites because most of the most of the
You know Dr 80s and 90 type sites they’re not Accepting paid links because they They have much more rigorous kind of Editorial teams and standards and stuff Um so you can kind of shoot yourself Into food A little bit by not being able to to do That or reducing your Cap or capability of acquiring those Types of links It’s what happened with our team right We had the guest posting service And we were doing quite large numbers Like one month i remember there was a Thousand plus or something Yeah and it was difficult for them to Cope with it And they started defaulting to just Buying links and buying links from the Same places well even worse yeah because We had Like hundreds of different clients got Hundreds of different websites coming Through That we were serving uh if you found a General website like Business2community.com i think was one Of the or Maybe that was a free one i can’t Remember lifehack.org Maybe another one and you could you Could pay them 10 bucks or whatever it Was
And they would post your article like Basically any any time so Any website that came through like one Of the first 10 links We’d give it was the business to Community and life hack Um paid links uh and just because it was It was easy so what what ends up Happening in agencies that have a lot of Clients is they They serve the same links to everyone The first hundred links are are the same Or broadly the same To everyone that comes through the door And you know There are certain reservations that You’d obviously have to have about like Quality and the neighborhood effect and And all that kind of thing with with That approach Yeah it was uh it was a dark time it was Difficult to But i think we learned a lot for that Actually yeah so To to that sort of brings on the next Question Do paidlings work yes Done video slash video Okay is it is it is it because they’re Paid That affects that that thing or is it All the other normal facts I think paid links is just increasing Your success rate that’s the way i’m
Looking at it but then you should look At Like every other factor you would look At like is it relevant Is the site not spammed and especially i Would be more critical when i pick A link from a paid source because They’re probably selling to other people So looking at who they link to is there Like a a million casino sites leading to Um do they have traffic from google com Like compared to the idea how much Traffic do they get Does it look healthy et cetera um when i Pay for links i would definitely look For that because When you do like free ones and they Accept free ones i mean i’m sure you can Also get crap to be honest like why Doesn’t the casino site Uh just get the feelings as well um but Yeah you still need to look at all these Metrics basically and be quite careful On on where you’re getting your link From I don’t think i haven’t seen like sites Tank because of bad links Too much in the last few years again i Think google is ignoring them rather Than Like penalizing you for it so it’s it’s It’s Just like you might just be wasting your Time more than it’s going to
Uh cost you your rankings your existing Rankings Yeah i think there’s also this concept Um that Like sites that pay for links the type Of people who are only paying for links Are the type of people that take Shortcuts in other areas of their Marketing Or their website so they’re more likely To have content because they don’t need To have like A plus level content to acquire links Because they’ll just throw some money at The problem and get links That way so there’s this kind of like Vicious cycle Effect that when you you start doing it Um Everything else that you know needs to Be amazing Doesn’t quite need to be so amazing Because you can just Pay someone for links and then that that Can also negatively affect your Uh like other areas of your website’s Performance Yeah i think the question then for the People because there’s a lot of people Who are going to listen to this and They’re going to be a bit mad at us Because they’ll be like oh you’re Defending paid links it’s actually not
That bad etc I know some people will just not be Happy about that but i think we Should go back on their side now and be Like can you compete Without buying links like can you go in Any industry and compete without buying Links Like what would you say uh Almost any industry yes any industry No uh there are some that There are some industries which are just Like so heavily Like focused around paid links travel Credit card Finance type insurance loans uh i don’t Know too much about that but If you say so uh i think a lot I think i think a lot of these uh casino Like You know those types of industries Are very uh sort of like heavily based Around maybe cbd as well A lot of sexual stuff as well if you Think about it like a lot of stuff That’s related to sexuality And things like that and i think that That’s family friendly you know That’s an interesting point actually Because the They have an inherent barrier to getting Uh Links anyway in like the nature of their Content and
Just people are kind of not really cool With that In quite the same way that they are for You know paintball or whatever Uh so then they they choose this as a Paid links as a as a way around that or Another another avenue for that to work Um i think what’s an interesting Question to ask though Is of all the link opportunities that Are out there For your site in your niche what Percentage Of them are only available to people who Pay And what percentage of them are only Available to people who Don’t pay and then like try and figure Things out there But that’s that’s a bit of a logical Fallacy because the people who are Paying for links Are also sometimes getting links without Paying for them So they have access as long as there are Some Paid links in a niche paid link Opportunities in a niche Then the people who are paying for links Have a bigger pool of potential links to Acquire Than someone who’s not paying for links So it’s kind of like a little bit of an Uneven playing field
In that sense now this is somewhat Rebalanced by what i said earlier about The types of people who pay for links Sometimes Get caught in this vicious cycle where They only pay for links and they neglect Quality in other areas and so that stops Them being able to get some of the like More difficult to acquire Uh free links so it’s it’s Kind of like it’s impossible to really Answer this this question Um about whether you compete or can Compete or not i think in most cases Even if we were going into like A credit card affiliate um website and We want to compete against you know Red ventures and the points guide all That their kind of sites Um i still think there’s scope to Compete without paying for links I think you just really need a very Solid content strategy Yeah you need to spend a lot of time and Effort on other areas of Of your marketing uh do some really Really good pr And then with a few wins there and a bit Of luck You could make it work but if we’re just Talking about going in as like a You know faceless stage one thin Affiliates affiliate site Very difficult to compete i would say in
In something like credit card affiliate Programs or loan affiliate programs Without Um without paid links yeah i mean I think the toyota is an okay example of That as well it’s like we’ve made Different content It’s not not always the best but you Know different enough That it’s too dark it’s like after a few Years with the r76 With like 3500 eq domains and to be Frank we didn’t build most of them Like most of them just came from the Content strategy and putting our Personality out there etc so It’s possible but you need to really Step up your content do something that The community really likes and talks About et cetera so Um guys like brian dean and ahrefs like I’m 100 sure Neither of them pay for links but don’t Pay for links here yeah so That the online marketing niche is like You can acquire a lot of links without Paying Like it’s a niche that things out a lot As well like sure that’s not the case For every niche as well so Yeah i would i would level that off a Little bit like it’s good but You can’t really do that in every niche As well so um can you compete with that
Bindings Yes you can uh is it gonna be hard Probably in a lot of niches like if you Go in the big one so It’s a i’ve always looked at this as a Kind of risk reward thing Where uh the In certain in most niches which are not Super difficult like this There are just so many opportunities to Get free links That the risk of And i’m not just saying risk of like Getting penalized but the risk of Spending a lot of money And this is really important if you’re a Beginner or you’re just starting out and You like don’t really know how to assess Whether a site is going to be a good Link or a bad link But the risk of spending a lot of money Or wasting a lot of money on Uh services or link building services Which are Not very good is very very high so By just having a blanket position of Not paying for links you’re avoiding all That and you’re learning how to do Marketing kind of the right way uh and You you develop a lot of skills and and Competency that way um versus if you Can you imagine you just got started you Know last week yeah And then someone was like oh you just go
And buy loads of links like well i don’t Have any money to spend on this It’s not just that i buy you know yeah When you’re starting a new niche i mean Regardless of how difficult the niche is There is always some opportunities for Free links and they’re like Easier the first ones are easier because You just find the lowest hanging fruits And Okay it’s a bit of work but like you Will acquire something so i think That you know you should probably have a Rule like uh even if you’re considering Paying for links maybe make a rule don’t Pay for your first Like for the first 100 links never pay Or something like this like so it gets You it gets you rolling And then you can actually explore what Can be done without paying So you might end up being more Competitive because essentially your Cost per link becomes lower because you Don’t pay for it And you have maybe more money for Content and things like that so Yeah if you’re if you’re budget Conscious and overall Uh i think in any niche you should try To Like not pay even if you’re like propane Basically At the beginning i think you will learn
A lot and it’s going to be Uh it’s going to be you’re going to Learn a lot yeah So my question to you is like let’s say Like usually i do the niche research When we pick up a new Project or something right so if i come To you and i’m like let’s make a Yeah let’s make a credit card site like What would your reaction be Do you think like how would you feel i Mean literally the first thing i would Say is like well we’re gonna have to pay For links All right so you would definitely like It’s possible to do it without paying For links but You would say do you know what i mean Because the previous point was like well It’s possible to go in a niche without Paying for links and i’m like Let’s go and create card and some people Look up to us they’re like oh these guys Are pretty good etc And we’re like well actually we pay for Links so it’s like how does that relate So i think we would we would if we were Going to do that like it’s there’s one Of two options is Okay let’s get started and let’s like You know pay for a bunch of links there And kind of get off the ground see See like how things settle um I wouldn’t be averse to like spending a
Lot of time developing a really solid Strategy to go in there and you know Maybe even acquire an existing site or Have some kind of like really solid link Building campaign with like some really Cool content maybe Like even pr agency type stuff I wouldn’t be averse to doing that but There’s like a lot of setup And budget that needs to go into to Something like that you know Easily six figures uh and so It’s a bit of a different question as to Like you know Should you just pay for links or not It’s like how how do you want to go into This Um do you want to like dip your feet in And like see how the water is or do you Want to like Go all in and dive in without knowing How deep Deep it is kind of thing yeah and and You can potentially waste quite a lot of Money that way Um which is just another factor you have To to to be aware of With with this i guess the thing is like For me I would definitely not consider spending Money in link building Even in such a competitive niche until We’ve nailed like Really good content that stands out i
Think it’s like even if you’re Considering paying for links you’ll need To buy a lot less if your content is Amazing Um and you’re the same is true for if You’re not By building uh if you’re not paying for Links rather than building normal links Well It’s like you kind of the thing is like If you’re going like a not so Competitive niche Um like you can rank with average Content in some links Whereas if you go in finance everyone’s The i85 already like It’s not like with some links you’re Going to make any difference if your Content is not amazing So you’re just going to stay at the Bottom even if you have a lot of links Even if you get the r60 you’re low dr in Finance you know And um and that’s kind of the difference Whereas if you go into catnish Dr25 you’re good to go you know and so Like And and the truth is you can just get The r25 with some guest posting And then some really average content That you can order from Any kind of agency or something and rank That site and probably be there for Several years
So it’s more like if you fail at these Competitive niches in terms of content Because you can’t just get dr 80 Overnight unless you buy a domain You get zero or you get very little and You’ve already invested a lot whereas On less competitive niches you get some Back to the point where you you at least Probably get your money back you break Even etc And so that’s kind of the way i’m Looking at it and that’s why it’s more Important for me in more creative niches To really nail the content kind of like Be in the top of the pack in quality of Content even if we’re a small site Because then the number of links i need To rank is much lower and also because The volume of links you need in very Competitive industries Is much higher than in less competitive Industries the the price difference is So massive versus like in the catnish You know your your budget following Building maybe like 15k or something In finance you’re talking maybe like 500k Um if you want to start being Competitive and honestly i might i’m Probably below I don’t we don’t buy a link so i can’t Really tell um But uh and so like you know between 15k And 500k
Imagine if you just take that money in Content and really like make a really Great toy team et cetera you might be Able to get the same result for 200k or 300k Probably your content is good you know The thing is like it’s It’s and that’s another problem here Like so it’s very easy to just spend Money on link building like spend A hundred thousand dollars on link Building right that’s that’s quite Straightforward to do that To spend a hundred thousand dollars on Content is very difficult because You need to spend a lot of time in there It’s not just it’s not just money like Content’s not that expensive Um when it comes to like producing the Level of content you need for For for something like that but the Thought that you are gonna have to put Into or You’re gonna have to hire some like Amazing content manager editor person Um who i don’t even know what it would Exist but the thought that you as The business owner are gonna have to put Into this and the the training and the Like Trial and error and all that stuff is is Gonna be pretty immense you can’t just Really throw money at this problem Because it’s very difficult to outsource
That level of content that you need for Something like that Yeah but i think that’s the trap right People like not sorting out their Website and starting to throw money at Link building to try to solve the Problem and that’s why i like the idea Like the same way i like to do all the Planning for my site before i even buy The domain so that i don’t buy domains i Don’t use I like the idea of actually fixing all The content issues Before you even start investing a lot in Link building that prevents you from Spending that money very often Because you’d rather there’s a good Chance you will fail at creating that Epic content like it’s It’s gonna be very difficult you might Give up you your team falls apart Whatever That happens especially when you’re Trying to get to high level And then if you if that happens well Great because you’ve only wasted like Maybe 20k Or 70k on that team and you’ve never Spent in this building And you didn’t waste like the 200k you Were gonna spend For that site in link building and well Your net profit i mean your net deficit Is much lower
Uh at that point in the project than if You have spent only building like okay Let’s figure out content now And then never really figure it out you Know yeah I mean i think there’s also this problem That like in the long run Really great content will will do well And will will Perform well um but the the the issue is At the moment Because there’s so many people doing Outreach and stuff The noise around it it’s like it’s hard To get noticed when You know every website has 10 messages a Day asking Uh for a link um it’s hard for your Outreach message to stand out because They’re not even going to open it and Take the time to re read your content Because they assume that yours is like Kind of like everyone else’s uh so Yeah it’s a tough one yeah i like the Idea of buying ads for For great content now actually like i Don’t mind spending Several hundred bucks promoting a blog Post or something it gives it exposure And It’s like it builds a following as well Makes you look legitimate people like Follow your instagram when you buy ads And stuff like that eventually
You can use that to like trade access to Other people’s audiences and eventually Translate into links like but like You don’t really know how it happens but It happens you know it’s kind of that Thing Through content promotion so yeah it’s Something that and by the way we have a Podcast on content promotion so we’re Gonna put a card here if you wanna check It out um Okay let me ask you a question um Should we pay for links should we buy Should we buy links for our websites So i’m not averse to like i’m not the Type of person that takes like a moral Perspective on this or or something like I’m i’d like to be Pragmatic in this and certainly We’ve done this in the past in a Previous business With somewhat mixed results we’ve never Done it so far on authority hacker or Any of Our other websites in our current Portfolio or You know the ones we’ve sold or whatever From a risk reward perspective I would be fine doing it if we go into Like some difficult niche like that that You kind of have to To compete i don’t know If i would like actively try and like Seek out those opportunities
Uh in the past up until now at least We’ve tended to avoid them Because that might be a be an issue um But yeah like possibly at some point but I think I can only say say that as someone who’s Been doing this Ten plus years and really knows the ins And outs of of how a lot of this works And would be able to Prevent any of the like negative side Effects from happening and Control the quality and you know all That kind of thing so Possibly yeah i think for me it would Depend on the project Like some projects i’d be happy to do it With some projects not really like Atari hacker never gonna happen for Example like we would never buy links to This Um some pro it’s again you said risk Reward right there’s some projects where I’m happy to take more short-term risks To make them grow faster for example we Didn’t invest a lot yet in it or Whatever something like this then The the downside is much lower than if You have a site that’s older dr 70 Something like this like Then you’re risking a lot if you’re Getting the bad favors of google so it’s I mean i’d be almost tempted to say that Um
For us like i would probably follow the The hundred links rule where i wouldn’t Pay for The first hundred links but kind of like That period when you’re between the r20 To the r50 or something That’s a per like that’s a strategic Period where i’d be like well the Downside is not that crazy because that Site is not so big yet And my investment is not that insane yet It’s provided The content you know ramps up with the Links um And uh and the upside can be pretty big If i manage to get the 50-ish much faster let’s say three times Faster if we Take the ratio that you gave us from the Outreach for skyscraper and guest Posting Um and at the cost of only increasing Maybe my total side budget by 20 or Something let’s say like the cost of Links is an extra 20 If you count the cost of content you Count the cost of tools the cost of Stuff I think that’s quite realistic to be Honest um Yeah i think uh but like it would be Punctual it would be Um it would also be very drastic like i Wouldn’t
I wouldn’t hurry i wouldn’t you know What i mean like i wouldn’t I would only pick up the links that i’d Be like well yeah that could have been a Free link and And then then i i would consider that Because you know one thing that i was Thinking about when i was preparing this Podcast Is um a few years ago we took some guest Posts on atari haka But it took me a long time to like edit Them To put them together to the point where I was like why am i not just writing a Blog post myself and like letting Someone else promote themselves on our Site Um and i don’t i don’t i understand why People want to get paid To do that work to post content on their Site it’s like it feels like Link building is the only form of Marketing i mean Apart from maybe posting on facebook on Your facebook page Where you don’t have to pay to where you Should not pay And you’re not allowed to pay people for Essentially some work they’re doing Obviously some people They’re posting random guest posts on Their sites and they’re not reading them Et cetera it takes five minutes
But still like do you really want your Content and your link to be on the site Where people don’t read the guest post Even if it’s a free guest post like it Also like questions the quality of that Link in the first place even if you Didn’t pay for it Wouldn’t you rather pay someone that Puts the effort on maintaining their Site properly Um but you pay them 30 bucks 40 bucks so That the hour they spend um You know editing an article formatting It adding images whatever there is they Do How they they feel like it was they were Rewarded for it So i feel like in my opinion it’s like It’s a bit of a system from google And uh and and yeah so that’s that’s why For some projects i wouldn’t feel Uh ethically wrong for doing this right I mean there’s no ethics really involved In this yeah At all it’s like it’s not illegal or Anything i know but like some people Will make it ethical in the debate and That’s why i’m bringing this up I think that’s because it’s such a Complex issue That it’s not like sometimes we have to Come out and say okay Do this or don’t do this and give like a Simple answer to people
Uh to so they can understand that if Perhaps they’re they’re new to the Industry or whatever But it the the decision of our paid Link’s okay yes or no Like there’s nothing moral whatsoever About that there’s a Is is it going to bring you more more Benefit than the The risk or the financial cost like the Dollar amount that it’s gonna Gonna in fact i don’t even know if the Risk is such a big Thing at the moment i think the more More pressing thing is How much are you going to make off of This and how much they’re going to cost You And i think google’s trying to bring Those two things Closer together or reverse them rather Than You know just banning every site that That does yeah they want to make it Expensive for you to rank with Paid links rather than try to ban them Basically so like It wouldn’t be worth your money let’s Say they managed to ignore 90 of paid links but essentially you’re Buying you’re buying 10 links to get one That accounts so Ranking 500 000 for one exactly Exactly to the point where it’s like
Probably not lost it economically I think that’s probably the approach They’re taking which is why it’s a lot Softer People don’t lose their traffic Overnight and don’t get all that stuff Banned et cetera Um and i think that would explain a lot Of that change In the experience from people buying Links where it used to be like you go Really fast you go down really fast and Now it’s just like well they seem to Basically behave like white hat sites um They grow They don’t grow as fast but they also Don’t fall as fast Um so yeah basically that that would be My answer to like Depending on the project and depending On where the project is at and how much Capital we invested in that project at That point i would consider punctually Doing that if the risk reward ratio Is favorable basically Do you agree with that Um broadly speaking yes Um i i i still think there’s a lot more Nuance to it than Than that um i’m just having Trouble like putting that into words at The moment all right that sounds like a Common theme tonight um anyway any final Words to say
On palings because i’m pretty much done Here no All right yeah i i guessed it uh anyway We asked you a question last week we Have this question of the week And the question was did you ever Abandon the website and so we had regina Who said yeah i had my first affiliate i Reached almost 8 000 dollars per month two years ago at Which point i got contacted by a company To buy I was interested so i packaged it the Reports etc but the offer felt low at 20x So i knew there was gross potential but I decided not to sell Uh and then eventually household Essentially fell off and now she’s You know she kind of like abandoned it She started to work on it again though So hopefully she’s gonna do better And this week’s question of the week is Going to be Do you pay for links and if so what kind Of Paid links do you do do you pay for Links when people Are when you are reaching to people and They ask you for money Or do you pay service providers i’m Quite curious to know what percentage of Our audience space for links and what Percentage is absolutely anti-paying for
Links As you can see from mark and i are kind Of like a little bit in between these Days Uh we’re not doing it by the way and Today we do it we will announce it Publicly so This was not admitting that we’re doing It at this point it hasn’t been the case For Many years since we closed we sold the Agency um So that’s basically it guys we hope you If you want to answer This question by the way uh go to our Youtube channel and find this podcast There and post it in the youtube Comments That’s a good precision um anyway on Youtube you can also subscribe you can Like the video And you can click on the notification Bell to not miss the next podcast And videos you can also subscribe on the Audio platform to get the audio version Of this podcast so spotify apple podcast Google podcast Pretty much anywhere you get your Podcast we are here thank you for being With us and we’ll see you next week for Another episode They’ve got more traffic than when we Sold it etc but they do it In a clean way basically so i think yeah
You’ve got google Is definitely afraid of that and that’s Why they’re policing it you can hear the Dog Yeah i just told kasia to sure all right It’s okay You can we can mute you while i’m Talking