Hey attorney hackers welcome to this Week’s podcast episode this week we have Something quite special for you Mark and i are both interviewing the Father of all public case studies and Building a site in front of an audience Spencer house from niche pursuits Spencer has been in this industry for so Long that when he started these pursuits The first thor movie was not yet Released so because Spencer has a lot of experience building You know niche sites and authority sites We wanted to poke him on the different Of topics that we know are quite Relevant to you So inside this interview you will find Things like an update on owntheyard.com Which is his latest case study His views on the recent core algorithm Update changes and how he changed the Way he builds websites because of it How he approaches platforms like youtube And pinterest to gain traffic to his Site and make money eventually All his monetization tactics and how he Dealt with the change of amazon Commissions and you know how he does Sponsored posts and a bunch of other Cool ways he makes money with his sites And a lot more so if you are excited for This interview don’t forget to subscribe Whether you’re on Podcast platforms on youtube and if
You’re on youtube don’t forget to drop a Thumb up and click on the notification Bell so that you don’t miss our future Videos Now i’m going to stop teasing you let’s Get started with the interview [Music] All right so today we’re trying Something new we’re trying a podcast With three people so it’s not just gonna Be how’s it going mark it’s going to be How is going mark and spencer And now that you guys just took over me Spencer why don’t you go first and tell Us how it’s going Things are going well man it’s uh it’s Friday morning for me so uh i’m trying To Cram some work in here and then enjoy The weekend but uh business is good Family’s good everything’s going well Yeah much better than 2020 right 2021 Such a different yeah things are looking Brighter for 2021 yes We’re off to a good time yeah i mean It’s fine i mean to be honest for us in Online business it’s Gone quite well to be honest it’s like It’s you know i’m not necessarily happy Of what happened in the world but uh I would say that overall business been Quite okay especially compared to most People so it’s like I’m not going to complain you know right
Would you agree Yeah yeah i agree i think people uh 2020 Was just felt like a long year and You know in some ways and people are Positive i think and ready for Um some changes that’s not just that i Think it’s important for people who Start who are in online business to not Necessarily share the negativity of A lot of people maybe around them Because there’s a lot of opportunities That are Like that have been arising recently as Well and uh And a lot of people have done very well Actually i was watching uh So there’s a french youtube channel Called marketing mania this guy is like Really really popular And same he made the whole video of how Like 2020 was his best year ever and he Did really good actually and A lot of people did actually yeah so Let’s be positive yeah In terms of business actually you know We’re kind of in a unique situation and That we’re an online business and more People have been online it seems like More people quarantined at home and so My business did really well in 2020 and You know i hope that continues this year And so So yeah we’re kind of in a unique Situation where things you know
Haven’t been so bad business once I agree and mark also how’s it going Wait you still you don’t have the Questions i thought i was gonna get away With that I don’t have any you just pass it to Spencer like co-oddly and just like try To avoid it i don’t have any Great answer it’s going fine nothing Special You know we’re still locked down here Not really doing much just Just working week um weekend sir Yeah by the way spencer in this podcast I know we were trying to be polite in Your podcast but in this podcast it’s a Tradition we talk over each other all The time so Feel free to interrupt us at any time And just talk over Us or shout louder than us etc that’s Kind of how it works here so Just i just wanted to just welcome you To this and see how it goes All right see if i can get in the mix Sounds good I like it um but uh what are we talking About first Mark let’s just jump into into the Actually so one of the big reasons i Wanted to have you on spencer is because You have A very public case study uh Owntheyard.com
Which you’ve you’ve done a kind of Month-by-month analysis of Of how it’s going uh and and talking About some of the things you’ve you’ve Done And we just wanted to really like pick Your brain on On how this has sort of transpired what You did what’s working What you would do differently if you’re Doing it again and just learn or Share with our viewers how spencer halls Builds Niche sites in in 2021 so Why don’t you start why don’t you start By telling us about maybe your Your approach to choosing a niche or and Do you call it niche or niche niche i Guess I’m a niche guy but uh you know we can Agree to disagree i’m sure on that one Okay yes Um so i’m interested in this one because You changed your mind actually i i was Rereading all the case study and you Changed your mind at the beginning right Yeah so uh the case study you’re right i Did so let’s jump into that Uh just a little bit and um just 30 Seconds like Why i do a case study for anybody that’s Curious Um you know i this is my fourth time to To build a niche site
In public and it’s it’s an interesting Exercise In terms of uh just showing people by Step Real world you know here’s a site i i’m Showing everything that i’m doing And it’s a great way for them to learn And so that’s why i do that Um the other benefit for me hopefully is That More people come read my blog and They’re excited to get Really good actionable tips right so i Hope that it ends up being a win-win That i I build a site that they can follow Along i grow my audience and then The kicker is that the the case study Site actually makes money right which Fortunately it has in this case um So uh picking the niche um i like to go Into something That um perhaps you don’t have to be A a highly skilled individual to kind of Be An expert right that’s kind of one thing Um And then uh the other thing is really I’m just looking for a market where i Can rank for Lots of easy to rank for keywords is There a lot of sort of gaps in the Market When i’m doing my keyword research as i
Look at and really it just comes down to Looking at the first page of google i Look at a bunch of keywords Um are there lots of keywords that i can Find where it feels like they’re it’s Not Dominated by authoritative sites with a High You know domain authority uh Are there opportunities there so that’s What i’ll do i’ll go and i’ll try to Find Can i quickly find 20 or 30 keywords in A particular niche That i feel like you know if i wrote an Article on this i could rank for Relatively easily Without a ton of link building so that’s Kind of the just quick overview of how I’d pick a niche Now when i first did this as mark went Into i got All excited for some reason about sort Of Senior living um you know Baby boomers are getting older people Are retiring I just felt like this is a growing Market and it is Uh and i kind of got really excited okay I’m going to go into this space And write about products that you know Seniors might need as they get older That sort of thing
Um and i i maybe Pulled the trigger too quickly because As i did more keyword research Even though i could find my 10 or 20 Keywords that were easy to rank for i Couldn’t find very many more As i looked at lots of individual Keywords it just seemed like okay this Is a harder market than i thought Because it was dominated More by just um very authoritative sites You know nursing homes and Um just other um entities that have a Lot of expertise In the area so i then switched over to Uh backyard stuff for lack of a better Uh term so uh on the yard covers Like backyard gardening backyard Landscaping Backyard games basically anything you Can do in your backyard That’s kind of what owntheyard.com Covers and uh the site i started it in Late 2018 so it’s been up for a little over Two years Um and it’s it’s doing pretty well um at This point last month it made about Thirty seven hundred dollars uh between You know amazon associates And izoic ads and nice it’s been a while To give an update as well on this right Yeah i hadn’t done a A big update for i did it monthly for
About the first year Uh and then i’ve done it less frequently I i did do an update Um just a couple of weeks ago i Published it on my blog Um kind of an annual review of 2020 Um is what i did so so i have a question About monetization Uh so do you consider the monetization Ceiling or potential when you’re doing Your your niche research Uh yeah i take that into consideration Um You know with a niche site and like a Public case study site The ceiling can be a lot lower in in my Opinion right like if I i’m really just the the goal was i Think to make a thousand dollars After um Well i wanted to make a thousand dollars Basically before i rebuild the site Um and that ended up being about a year Um just shy of a year i believe is when The site started making a thousand Dollars a month So i i’m really okay if i build a site And the ceiling is like two three Thousand dollars a month If i were to um build a site more Privately I would my target would be quite a bit Bigger actually right I would want something that i felt like
Could at least be A six figure a year um type niche site Is that because you’re worried about Copycats and the potential Revenue loss from from that that was one Of my questions like does it help or Does it have to shine publicly Right uh yeah that’s that’s one of the Considerations is i When i build the the the niche site i Um i wanted to do well but like if it Starts doing really well That just attracts way more competitors And it does get more difficult And because this is my fourth time Around i’m very aware that there’s going To be a ton of people Building a site in the exact same niche As me this happened with My survival knife site it happened with Other sites that i did As a public case study people at least Er parent site as well right The shading yes yeah the shaving site as Well Uh and uh people are just lazy or they See success and like ah i can make a Quick Thousand bucks a month if i copy his Site exactly and so There’s collateral damage that comes Along with doing these you know case Studies and so I’m sort of just happy and um honestly
Just kind of relieved That i can get a site that’s making a Couple thousand dollars a month that i Did In public because it looks really bad if You build a site and it totally I was gonna say it’s a risk you know When you it’s a big risk it’s like It’s like even if you’ve done it many Times i mean it can happen the site Doesn’t do that well et cetera and You know it can happen to us can happen Too it can happen to anyone right There’s no guarantee that google’s gonna Pick up your site and And do well and so uh sort of the the Other question you asked is Does having it in public help the site Um That that’s a good question that um I i did build it to a thousand dollars a Month before i reveal the domain So i feel like i at least got the ball Rolling and feel like i can say okay my Strategies work from zero to a thousand After that certainly when i like emailed My list And said the site is owntheyard.com like That was the highest traffic day You know by far you know thousands of People come visit it Um so it’s it’s debatable how much that Really helps though right People are mostly just looking they’re
Not necessarily building any links or Anything like that Uh but maybe some pages have higher user Metrics that google’s looking at because People are checking it out um i i don’t Think it like Shoots it you know to the moon having my Audience know what it Is or anything like that i think it Helps a bit though it’s like i mean i Can see you know the authorization System we also built like a case study Site and so we released a new version Like november i think um like the first Videos came out i think people figured End of november what the site was gonna Be by the time we actually did the niche Research And so on and um well direct traffic Increased and branded traffic increase Basically people typing the name of the Site And people going directly on there and Then it’s like you I can kind of see how like that’s when Google started like crawling the site More and like organic traffic started Creeping up On a brand new site the site was much Younger i think it was like two months Old at the time and we shot it so it Wasn’t making money right it’s like um So it was it’s interesting because when You’re at zero you kind of like you get
To see the effect of like what this Might have It’s like it might be a coincidence to Be honest like maybe two three months is Also kind of the time when google will Start sending you some traffic not a lot But some you know Yeah um so it could be a coincidence but I tend to see that like Engagement tends to like boost uh Rankings And um you know the same as when people Google your a keyword Then click on it you tend to rank up Like i did that test on Fastest wordpress theme for atari hiker I literally just posted on facebook i Was like guys google Google first wordpress theme click on Atari hacker Like 48 hours after we published the Post and we were number four for like a Few weeks you know i’m not against like The big wordpress sites etc just by just Degenerating that metric so i can Imagine that people googling your brand And clicking on it It helps with i mean honestly it’s you Get some benefits here and then you get Some negative size from the copycats so I think it kind of Evens out i’m not saying you get easier For this understanding right Um people are googling your brand there
Is probably a little bit of help Yeah it’s a it’s an interesting Discussion you know sort of how Engagement metrics might improve google Rankings Um you know i’ve noticed similar things Like when i publish a new article On niche pursuits and if i share it on Social media And include it in my email list even if It’s not like hey go type in this Keyword Um you know like i i might publish it You know day one or two and not email About it and then as soon as i Email about it like it jumps a lot of Times to pay Page one right and so i see this if you Can send a lot of external traffic to Your Um to your articles it helps google Notices that Yeah i mean youtube works exactly the Same so i would not be that surprised That they’re Trying to do something similar it’s the Same company yeah um but it’s like this Is hard to prove right it’s that you Can’t really put numbers behind this or Anything like that so I always put like big quotes when i when I say these things Right and it’s not like it’s a permanent Ranking a lot of times right
You jump off Hopefully after a few months it finally Climbs its way back up and Sometimes it does sometimes it doesn’t How have you been Affected by the amazon price changes Last year has it affected that site or Your other sites in a big way and what They’re coming to what are you doing Yeah the commission changes the Commission reduction rather right What what are you doing differently now When you’re sort of researching and Planning out Sites given given that yeah yeah there Was there was a big Commission change in like april of 20 20. was it 2020 yeah 2020 of course it was um and uh so that Does You know that that’s no fun and i sort Of had the chart the month ahead and It’s like you know it takes a nice Little dip there um in in amazon Earnings Um so what i’ve done actually with that Site And i i don’t know if it’s it’s only Because of that but just a lot of other Things that i found that Um it’s become i don’t know if it’s Become more difficult but it’s certainly Not getting any easier to rank for the Very um
Uh affiliate focused keywords like you Know the best Backyard you know shovel or whatever There’s always Fobs on the way right yeah yeah there’s Either More competitors or google’s just Ranking different Um you know amazon’s ranking better or Whatever it is So um i have been focusing a lot more on Like Informational content to be honest um i Published I don’t know how many but it was a Couple hundred like informational Articles in the second half Of 2020 that’s really where i put all my Content budget uh was to do that um a Lot of you know question based keywords Things like that that were simple Questions you don’t have to write as In depth an article instead of like a 4 000 word Beast you know targeting an affiliate Phrase you can write like Maybe 1500 words and and rank well on a Sort of question based keyword And so i did a lot of that so that i can Increase my display ad earnings Um is the idea is to just rank for a lot More Of these um informational keywords And so that’s that’s the shift that i
Kind of made is to try and balance out The income a lot more with With that those types of keywords yeah When you were doing the reports it was Mostly uh Amazon and then a little bit of izoic Yeah and then i guess i guess Are you still in a 17 to 20 dollar range Per thousand visitors I think that’s what i would yeah on your Reports yeah that’s pretty good actually That’s good for isaac especially yep Um yeah it’s like i i’ve experienced Much lower with them so that’s why You’re it’s really good actually yeah Yeah i know it’s been hovering around Um around the 17 rpm Mark uh for a while so um We’ll see if that increases spring is For this particular niche Does just really well spring and summer So it tends to increase yeah But like you know these as they’re not That much niche dependent anymore it’s Very Like retargeting driven and like Reselling retargeting data and Everything so it’s like It’s like you kind of see most niches Kind of converge towards the same Earning per thousand visitors you know So like uh It’s like as a it’s not just like the Good times of adsense where you would
Pick the niche based on the cpc of the Keywords etc Uh it’s a little bit different now um in Terms of like how you I mean how you buy ads i don’t know if You buy ads for each person i guess you Do for Link whisper right mm-hmm well You know how you do that right it’s Audience-based right and then so you Build your audience and then it’s Look-alike audiences so you can tell Facebook or google et cetera to find Look-alike audiences essentially you buy These impressions so they’re not as Keyword targeted as they are like other User metrics Built and so therefore most sites tend To more or less get in the same range of Rpms these days actually right Yep would you if you’re building a new Site Now case study or otherwise would you Make the primary focus Of that info content and ads rather than Affiliate Um no i I don’t think so but if i were to start A new site i Would not focus on amazon um For sure i i would focus on i i really Like Sort of third-party you know affiliate Programs
Private affiliate programs right so like I think you guys did a Software site right um or something Software reviews And and so that’s kind of what i’m Talking about is like those They sell one product or a couple of Products they’ve got their private Affiliate program I would kind of focus on stuff like that That make a little bit more commission Right that’s just different you know It’s So many people are building amazon Affiliate sites and targeting the same Things I would really try to dive in and find Something that’s a little different If possible i mean sites have been built On everything under the sun at this Point But that that that’s probably what i Would do um You know or i would buy an existing site And and try to scale it probably an Existing site that’s Not as amazon focused right and try to Scale what it’s doing At that point uh have you done that a Lot with uh with existing domains or Existing businesses I’ve i’ve done it some yeah yeah like i Have a couple of sites right now that I’ve
That i acquired about two years and so I’ve been um growing those and working On those What’s the acquisition strategy then how Do you Get those how do you acquire those Did you buy it off a broker or did you Reach out to them directly did it come To you or Yeah so the so two sites we can talk About um Uh one i bought privately um oddly Enough I think it was in it was one of the Facebook groups like at the mediavine or Ad thrive facebook group I put a post out hey i’m looking to buy A site anybody looking to sell one of Their You know blogs or sites and sure enough We got several people actually that were Interested Um and in those facebook groups you guys Are probably aware it’s It’s usually like bloggers like mom Bloggers or food bloggers So so it ended up being um sort of a mom Blog Is what i ended up acquiring um so that Was done privately no broker Anything like that um a kind of a cool Deal the other one that i Purchased was through empire flippers it Was just through a broker so
Wherever i can find a good deal right I’m not really looking to acquire Anything right now but if i were i would Probably Go both routes i would just wherever i Can find the best deal And and try and make a good acquisition When you buy a site do you revamp it a Lot or do you just Kind of like keep it flowing and just Add more content or something like do You try to change it a lot Um yes and no um Didn’t make a lot of like visual changes Like didn’t change the theme Um anything like that but uh Like for the mom blog i did a ton Of on-page seo work um Updating articles um Just just a lot of the scenes stuff made Made a lot of changes In terms of um even like ad layouts and And um in in this case amazon became a Much Bigger piece of the earnings than it was Before before Um the person that owned it she was Focused Display ads you know ad thrive and Then uh sponsored posts and uh which That’s a whole world i don’t know if you Guys have talked about a lot that I got a crash course two years ago when I first bought this
Site um it’s a lot of work to do Sponsored posts Is it was a partner and i we bought it By sponsored posts you mean that People outreach to you asking for a link And you sell Sell them a guestbook sell them a link No this is like A step above this like literally like Brands like sponsored Yes like go on tell us about sir yeah so Go into like influencer marketplaces There’s like Um isaiah.com there’s Um oh there there’s tons there’s there’s Dozens of different Sort of influencer marketplaces and That’s where we would start we had Profiles on all of those and so like big Brands like walmart Hasbro um you know you kind of name it Like Big brands they post and say we’re Looking for somebody Um to make a recipe with one of our Items And take pictures of it and post it on Their blog and share it on social media And for that We’re gonna pay you know two thousand Dollars or three thousand dollars or Whatever It is yeah yeah and and some of them are You know up to five thousand dollars
Just depending on on what it is and who The brand is Um so this is very common with like Fortune 500 companies they Reach out to lots and lots of bloggers They have a new Product or just something they’re trying To push for that month they have a bunch Of people write blog posts share it on Their social media so That’s what we do and it’s it’s a it’s a Very involved process you there’s Contracts that go back and forth You sign paperwork um yeah you know you Get The exact instructions and if you don’t Say this exact line In a video you have to redo it and we Without i wouldn’t do any of it i would Outsource it right Like we would have somebody make a video For us and things like that and Um so i’m disappointed i was gonna look For a recipe video now You don’t want any recipes from spencer I’m a i’m a mac and cheese ramen noodles Kind of guy Um that that’s what i want that’s my Repertoire right there Um but uh so we did that Um for the first year and we just found You It was so much work time consuming it Was kind of out of my wheelhouse i was
Like you know what we need to just focus On Growing content um you know and doing All the stuff that I see yeah with the more passions like It’s like you build stuff once It makes you money for many months right And so we’ve grown like the amazon Associates earnings For example it was making like 600 bucks A month and now it’s making like Four thousand dollars a month right so We’re not making the three or four Thousand dollars a month in sponsored Posts that we used to Uh usually we’ll maybe do the rare one But you know we’ve increased other areas I have a question about this sponsored Post so Yeah do you think they’re looking more For sites which have Good kind of seo metrics or it’s more You have a lot of Followers on social for that big burst Of of promotion It’s all about social followers that’s They they look at the numbers Um you know and so this particular site Does really well on pinterest uh and so They can see that it’s got I don’t remember the number of followers Right but it’s got hundreds of thousands Of followers or whatever So numbers that they can see on facebook
Or pinterest or Whatever that’s really what they’re Looking at plus they do look at Traffic of the site overall right so if You get out have a high traffic site And they want a blog post they look at That but they’re not For the most part they’re not even Thinking oh is this post gonna rank in Google yeah At all yeah do you even link to them do You do and if you do do you know follow Or not Um you do link to them it’s nofollow and Um you have to have you know that it’s a Sponsored post you know You have language and often they supply That language for you like you need to Have this paragraph or whatever Okay so it’s clean yeah yeah it’s clean You know And so it’s a whole it’s a very Interesting world though because Again when you look at like the ad Thrive media vine Sort of the the the craft bloggers food Bloggers That’s a huge part of their revenue a Lot of them is is this sponsored post They’re you know i hate to say it but They’re probably more hustlers than we Are Like they i was gonna say i don’t i Don’t like it that much i don’t like it
I don’t like it you know they’re Hustling to get the deals and then They’re hustling i mean they’re making Recipes they’re sewing clothes They’re taking pictures what’s that it’s A freelancer job you’re just a freelance Content creator basically Yeah except you you paid on like your The audience you built Yeah yeah and so the amount of work that Some of these Like true like uh hands-on bloggers are Doing it’s I mean i applaud them it’s it’s amazing You know what they’re doing but Yeah i’m like i i can’t do that i got to Go back to just trying to rank better And google You know optimizing my on-page stuff and Making some money from ads like that’s That works for me yeah yeah you Mentioned uh You mentioned pinterest on this site and You did that on own the yard as well do You still do this And how do you look at pinterest these Days versus maybe how it was like Two years ago or something yeah Pinterest has changed a lot there’s been A lot of updates with pinterest Uh but there is good traffic to be had There for sure So i’m still on both sides still active On pinterest still
Uh pinning a lot of new images um you Know it’s gone It seems like it’s gone from like you Used to be able to just schedule out Hundreds of things On tailwind to now like you got a live Pin and use the pinterest scheduler And so you know like i’ve got an active Va that You know every day pins five or ten Images um sort of thing Yeah so i’m still doing that and it Still Brings in good traffic on both sites and It just it fluctuates sometimes you get A couple pins to take off and Sometimes you don’t um so but the The the traffic can be really good um So i think it’s you know honestly i Think with display ads is good actually Yeah because these players is like Easily monetized like if you do it If you do affiliates it’s kind of hard To sell stuff to people from pinterest But these players you get paper Impressions so at this point if they Click they click here Exactly exactly if you if you can get You know A thousand visitors a day coming from Pinterest and they’re just Looking at display ads that’s that’s Great how do you Produce content these days i mean i take
It you’re not obviously writing Writing all yourself how do you produce It he’s too busy doing recipes How do you how do you produce content at Scale Without having the quality kind of go Down Um so a lot of standard operating Procedures Is is really kind of the answer um And so coming up with a system and i and I’ve done this like for on the yard and Other sites Coming out with really well written and For me it’s just spreadsheets but it’s Really Well written sort of checklist um that People can follow with demonstration Videos you know how do you Add meta descriptions and You know make sure the yoast keyword is Optimized and that sort of thing You know doing kind of all the really Basic things In addition to the authors usually just Write But having these other checklists to Make sure they’re looking at all those Things Um and so my process that i followed is Had this really good Standard operating procedure for own the Yard i ended up having like seven or Eight
Different authors when i sort of pushed Like i said a couple hundred articles Pretty quick Um at one point and so they would write All the content and then i have an Editor that i trust And is you know knowledgeable and has Proven that they can follow this Checklist They go through that editor and make Sure the authors hit You know all those points um and That’s really the process and then um Like i You know i hate to say it but like for On the yard i wasn’t then Rechecking what the editor did i just Let it be scheduled hit publish and it’s On the site You know it’s a similar process for Other sites like sometimes i do Outsource content for niche pursuits Right i still write a lot of the content There but if i have like an author that Writes something i become the editor i Don’t outsource that for niche pursuits Right like i I read and update but it you know it’s a Similar process You get your standard operating Procedures you get your authors You get an editor that checks all the Work that’s how you scale Where where do you hire these people
From So i’ve done pretty decent on problogger Job boards You know you can get a lot of uh decent Authors You know you get a lot of applicants That you’ve got to read through Sometimes Um so there and then i’ve i’ve done Decent actually on upwork And i like to hire hourly if possible On yes um Just because instead of like paying per Word Um you can sometimes either underpay or Overpay Uh just depending on the individual Author But i feel like if i am able to pay Hourly Uh for somebody that is really focused You know say i’m paying like i pay my Editor like twenty dollars an hour If she’s really focused and working she Can edit And she also writes new content uh she Can produce a lot more content And ended up paying more i end up paying Less than i would if i just paid her Five cents a word or whatever so that’s Interesting We had the opposite experience whenever We’ve had like hourly Writers it’s been a long time since we
Tried it but We felt that they they tended to just Take a lot longer to To write the content and it wasn’t Really that much better than It would have been uh so we stopped Doing it quite a while ago And it can depend you know um like i Said i got my editor That she’s hourly and like she’s Somebody that every once while you just Find somebody that’s a superstar Yeah and and she was that like I’ve had her now for two years and she’s Awesome Right and she’ll i know she’s working She does great work Others yeah you just come in paying per Word and that’s fine And across all your sites do you Directly manage Everyone or do you have like different People managing sites do you have Different levels like how do you Keep track of everything keep everyone Kind of focused and on playing I have good people in place i mean at The end of the day yes the buck stops With me For all of it so in a way yes i’m Managing all of that But uh like for only yard as I explained i’ve now got this sort of Superstar editor
Really she’s doing everything uh if i’m Honest right like i I have her send me a weekly email with What she did And sort of i check in um But i’ve got a list of keywords that She’s working through Um i’ve got a list of content updates That i want her to do now Um now that the site’s a couple years Old i’m actually having her go back and Update and refresh Some content um and beyond that it’s me Just sort of checking in Um so i i do a little bit of both i try To have really good people in place that Are really managing the day-to-day And i am just checking in once a week or You know Monthly or that sort of thing yeah we Have similar a similar system on some of Our sites as well yeah It’s like you know i check on friday Afternoon or something like kind of Catch back up and Um it takes me like two hours a week or Something and that’s it yep um so yeah Actually very similar so i’m glad to be Doing the same Seems to be doing all right yeah it’s Working yeah exactly Uh do you have more questions on content Marketing uh no i was gonna go on to To on-page seo
Uh tell tell us about i know you want to Talk about your internal linking because You you now have a Internal linking uh plug-in tool Linguist.com which is Actually pretty good uh but tell us About in a broader sense how you Approach it Uh on page for for an affiliate type Yeah so on page i mean you guys have Probably talked a lot about I mean first you gotta produce the the Content that’s actually targeting You know a specific keyword we won’t Necessarily go into all that but Right you want to optimize sort of the Article for the keyword you’re trying to Rank for Um you know you’ve got your do you use That for seo or anything to do that These days I’ve been using market muse um yeah yeah A lot i have used surfer in the past so I’m very familiar with that as well Um but yeah i i use market muse to kind Of make sure That the articles are And this is a big on-page thing right is Um you’re using sort of the latent Semantic keywords that either market Muse or other tools Maybe recommend but also looking at the First page of google Um and seeing what the other sites are
Talking about like what are their Headings what are the main subjects Within the article and making Sure that you’re hitting on those points And i think you guys actually did a Video Um on that not not too long ago on the Best flashing toilets Yeah that’s what it was that’s that’s Right so watch that video if if people Want to know what we’re talking about Um i do something very similar it’s the Idea is that Google is basically telling you what Types of articles they’re going to rank For this particular keyword so just make Sure you’re doing that stuff Right so that’s that’s a big part of the On-page um Optimization strategy uh and then Uh the other thing you know is links uh Links are important And if you can build internal links That’s a great way to still get a link To your site and so Of course i love building internal links Because you own the site And if you’ve got you know other Articles that are related to the one That you just published like it just Makes perfect sense To link to that article and so Yeah we don’t have to jump into link Whisper too much unless you want but
That’s what link whisperer does it’s a WordPress plugin that helps you Build internal links much faster much Easier sort of recommends What would be a good that’s one question About linquist what’s the difference Between the free version and the paid Version i think that’s what people want To know because there’s a free version Yeah Yeah there is a free version um and the Free version Uh still gives you the link suggestions Like when you’re editing your article um But it doesn’t allow you to Automatically build those links right so It just Lists so you need to go do it you have To do it yourself so it says here’s what We would recommend as a link But if you want to be able to sort of Just check the box and hit add the link It’s the premium version um okay there’s A couple other little things but that’s Kind of primarily is that it’s The free version is the do-it-yourself Version yeah I think but i think people like people Might want to check the free version Yeah and they can see how it looks like And then Whatever happens it’s in a wordpress Repository so just add it for more price Space yeah
Uh any more on pages your stuff uh no Just specifically on On internal linking um so i mean Try and be as unbiased here as as Possible but like Like how much of an impact does it Actually have on On on your seo performance Um i i did a case study on this um For only art actually uh so people can Find that um i might have to do some Googling I don’t i don’t remember exactly what it Because Yeah we’re basically i took some Articles that didn’t have any internal Links Uh and then i built some internal links Uh to like 30 different articles or Something Uh and then i tracked the results over The next few months and There was a noticeable impact most of The articles Improved in google some of them Dramatically Some of them not at all a couple of them Declined but On average they definitely improved uh Their rankings in google um Is it going to uh make you rank number One for a really competitive keyword Probably not right uh it helps it’s You know yeah it it it still is a signal
To google It they rank web pages right um And so if one web page is ranked is Linking to another web page That still is a vote um that That particular article should be Ranking higher in google and so I i think just depending on the keyword It can have a really big Impact do you think it’s more impactful In those competitive environments or in Those Less competitive environments where no One’s really doing On-page or not that much of it Right yeah i i think you know sort of in The lower competition Um realm it’s gonna have a bigger impact But It’s it’s sort of the thing is that like If you’re going after competitive Keywords You still have to do the internal links Because everybody else is right It’s just you probably are gonna need Some external links as well All right let’s talk about external Links then uh what’s your what’s your Current Outbound link building strategy mix like What are you what are you doing guest Posting What else yeah so I i will just say that my caveat here is
That I’ve never been like a huge link builder Right i’ve always kind of just done the Minimum i’ve always been like I love to find easy to rank for keywords Write the content And try to rank it and that’s worked Pretty well um So for like on the art i have done some Link building and most of that has been Guest posting um you know doing The whole outreach thing and and trying To land some guest posts Um i have tested out a couple of Services for example As well like link building agencies um Like one recently is doing sort of Your guys’s method of the shotgun Skyscraper technology Oh okay yeah so yeah and mark was on the Podcast too no It was mark mark yes yeah with niche Website builders You’re on the podcast yes yeah so uh They’ve They’ve been doing that recently uh for Me and so of course You know authority hacker listeners and All about the shotgun Skyscraper technique so kind of been Doing that Um and that’s i mean for the most part i Wish i had like Way more in-depth answer for you guys
But that’s that’s kind of been Mostly what i’ve been doing i have a Question for you you’ve been doing sites For a really long time now Do you feel that people need to build to Do more in building now or less building Building Oh boy to be successful um i think It’s really important when you have a New site to get that site to a certain Level with sort of a A core number of not necessarily a Number of links but it feels like There’s a certain Authority that your domain needs to Reach and then the It feels like at least if you’re going After the lower competition keywords Um you don’t need to be scaling your Link building as much Anymore and and that’s always been my Mentality is trying to get Sites to kind of a certain authority Level and then at that point Like just producing content doing Internal links Trying to optimize on page and it seems Like i’m having a high enough Hit rate if you will that it’s it’s Profitable And so that’s kind of been my overall Mentality um do you need to build More links uh if i look at things like Niche pursuits
Um yeah there’s there’s really Competitive Keywords that you gotta have more links For We have a tory hacker i understand and That’s that’s still like My ongoing debate is is um Like i want to rank for some of these Keywords but like i’m just I’m not going to outrank ahrefs and Hubspot And you know all of these guys and so i Kind of have to like Tone my enthusiasm a little bit Sometimes no i think a guy to luca is Adam and freud i don’t know if yeah yeah I have seen this stuff Like this guy is like oh actually Is possible and he’s definitely been Killing it He’s on our deal now he may be even Higher now but he’s been Really hammering the link building he he Comes with like pre-existing Relationships because he was like an Effect manager for like big commerce etc So I’m expecting that he knew a lot of People that are linking to him now Um but i i think it’s a good example if You want to see someone who did it in That market Uh like he he has been killing it Uh with very activity in building yeah
Yeah he’s been mostly doing guest Posting And um if you look at what he’s doing Yeah it’s really interesting And so i don’t know if you want to dive Too deep into that but Just with niche pursuits seeing him and A couple other people it’s like you know Maybe i should try some more active Link building and i haven’t done a lot Um but i did reach out to a few people Because i’ve been in the industry for You know 10 years or whatever And so reaching out to a few people i i Have i’ve landed a few Um guest post spots um Pretty easily and so i i feel like i Very easily could i could reach out to a Hundred people And i don’t know what the percent would Be but it would be much higher than you Know Probably other people and i could do a Bunch of guest posts Um but then comes the debate of is that The road i want to go down Do i want to be spending my time writing All those guest posts Do i feel good about hiring like a Ghostwriter to do guest posts for me Do i want to build out that process you Know is it worth it and so That’s an ongoing sort of debate That i have with me like i said i’ve got
A few guest posts that i’m going to do Maybe i’ll monitor those and see how it Goes and decide if i want to Scale anymore yeah yeah but the Difficulty with this for this niche is That you’ll need 100 right to like really make a big Impact uh it’s just like Sure volume needed is is high you know It’s like it’s not like let’s do five Guest posts and then let’s see how we’re Ranking it’s like It’s a sustain like intensive effort Right And so i mean the other the other Thought is well okay if i’m not going to Be doing a bunch of guest posting and Things like that You know i have to look at my business Like for niche pursuits and go You know it’s doing really well um Already Um i can scale more content in certain Areas that maybe are a little bit easier To rank for There’s other activities that i could be Doing which you guys are doing A lot better than me like youtube and Capturing Audiences in different places um that Can scale the business you could do Better Yeah um you know i’m i’m i’m hot and Cold depending on
You know the time period um so anyways That’s that’s just sort of some thoughts On niche pursuits Another question following building Maybe for your other sites but like do You pay for links Um i i don’t uh pay for Links like niche edits if that’s what You mean that sort of thing Um any kind like you know if you do Outreach and they’re like oh yeah Yeah i should take that back um you know Especially because i have Hired other services like niche website Builders and They are they are paying for links right They’ll usually reach out for guest Posts and then You know we said we would try this here So it’s like like We’re not trying to be like oh this is Bad don’t do this et cetera we actually Literally said on the podcast Actually we’re gonna try on some Projects so it’s like um So it doesn’t seem to be that much in The way of like penalties or people Suffering not anymore yeah yeah these Days yeah no i haven’t seen anything Like that but But yeah if it’s you know 30 bucks or 50 Bucks it’s like all right whatever Um let’s do it okay yeah cool i think It’s important to like
Have that like real discussion and like Really talk about this because You know what i mean you know how this Industry works right you have on some Side there you have like the white Knights Right the real assume black hat people And then it’s like you kind of have to Peek aside but like Um i think there’s like there’s this Link buying ending buying you know like Doing all like spamming and then also Just be like You know if you’re putting if you’re Posting a guest post on your site i Don’t i understand if it takes some time To people that they want to be paid for That time you know or something Um it’s like i i don’t think it’s that Stupid so Um i i like the idea of that maybe There’s some middle ground here Where it can be done without access or Anything right And i i agree and it sometimes depends On the site too right like so for on the Yard or Other sort of niche sites i’m willing to Experiment and try and You know do things like if if that were My livelihood Like maybe i wouldn’t do that right um You know niche pursuits like i’m never Gonna like buy a link or something like
That like I care too much about the community and The business that i’ve built right like I’m going to try to keep that as squeaky Clean as possible but Other little projects yeah i i Try different things yeah i believe also That’s Part of our role to like actually Experience the whole spectrum of the Market and Share the experience yeah so um i i Think it’s uh Something you you probably should check Um Going away from link building i wanted To talk a little bit not too long About the recent google uh Uh argo updates and like what Essentially Everyone has their own interpretation of Them like everyone just like Will explain it in one way so it’s Interesting to ask people like what do You think because it’s like You know you have the e8 knights and you Have the people who believe that It’s just trying to to promote big like Big big authority sites and kill All the affiliate sites et cetera so i Just want to know what you think Um and and where you standing in that Giant debate that’s been around for two And a half years
Yeah right um you know i I don’t have a definitive answer or feel Strongly like i know exactly what it is You know i try to look at uh what the Updates do And boy it’s it’s been really Interesting to just see That certain industries it seemed like Um at least Um i was talking with matt diggety um Not too long ago he we just recorded a Podcast about a week ago And basically every site that he was Competing with Like they all got hit including his site Like in kind of the health and fitness Um space i mean we had the same with House ambition literally yeah You know we were doing skyscraper at the Time we kind of like were doing Shotgun skyscraper we didn’t share it Publicly and then all the sites we were Doing shotgun skyscraper from like the Ideas we were getting All these guys got killed yeah so it’s Like essentially we’re just hitting the Same teams etc and i was like okay we’re Done here yeah And so it’s i don’t i don’t it’s Certainly not industry specific but it’s Just interesting that he noticed like Every site except for like one or two And sort of the health and Fitness space got hit pretty hard um
With my own sites Like um fortunately i’ve actually saw Seen improvement um uh with with my Stuff Including on the yard um Not to get too sidetracked on the yard It’s kind of interesting because um the The winter months Is really a decline because of Seasonality um And and so like when the core update hit Like i Am not seeing an uptick in traffic per Se it’s still just It’s just flat um but when i look at the Number of Organic keywords and ahrefs that are now Ranking i’m ranking for more keywords Um but the traffic’s not going to come Till spring because nobody’s going to be Searching for backyard games Until spring so i expect a really good Spring Um anyways just sort of an interesting Thing i’ve noticed There um and and niche pursuits has done Really well In the google core update um as well But uh what i think i’ve seen Is that um the affiliate Type keywords um seem to Have gotten hit a lot harder than other Types of content and again this is Looking at on the yard i feel like i’m
Ranking Worse for you know my best croquet sets My best Frisbees my best you know whatever tool Uh for your backyard it seems like those Types of articles got hit a little bit More Uh and my informational articles are Kind of doing better so It if i were to make any sort of you Know Statement about it that’s at least in my World what i’ve seen Okay cool um i don’t know if i want to Start a debate right now Exactly i don’t i like i said i haven’t Done like a wide study i Yeah i don’t have like a lot of data to Back up any arguments so if you have I believe a lot of the industry yeah i Think a lot of industry has a lot of Confirmation by us you know we spend our Days looking at Affiliate sites yeah so it’s like it’s Kind of normal that you find affiliate Sites that get hit you know Um and so it’s not i’m sure if we spend Our day looking at e-commerce sites you Might find a lot of e-commerce sites That got here Yeah that’s true it’s it’s it’s just how To i I don’t have the data to back it up so I’m not saying anything but i’m saying
It’s usually normal to see like you look In your own garden and then you see what Happened when there was a storm or Something You know what i mean you get it’s what You focus on that you you see Uh and i don’t know what these updates Are so it’s like i’m not really taking Uh we’ve always tried we’ve made a whole Episode that will be added before you so It’s already live if you Want to check it out about like Discussing about this but also Discussing about how the industry reacts To this and How people make a lot of money Essentially trying to explain these Updates without necessarily knowing very Much And uh and selling services and selling Agency stuff etc and so like yeah it is It isn’t interesting but It’s been two and a half years now so i Think it’s time to to start drawing some Conclusions and Learning how to live with them actually Because they kept happening At least until last december yeah and um Also just Related to updates that might be Interesting is that uh nichepursuits.com Actually got hit with the may core Update Um it very much you know
Sort of uh um anyways there was a dip in Traffic and it sort of Was was slowly going down until this Newest core update And i will just say that i did a lot of Work From may to november um you moved a lot Of content I removed a line of content you know Just a lot of old stuff that wasn’t Relevant old income reports that nobody Cares about from 10 years ago or whatever um so i removed Like 200 articles Um i optimized internal links a lot And and that honestly not just adding Internal links i actually removed a lot Of like You know i was linking to two different Places that like were Amazon associates right whatever and so It could be confusing right like if i’m Linking to two different articles that Um mention the phrase you know keyword Research Like google’s trying to figure out which Article i’m trying to rank keyword Research so A lot of it was just you know optimizing That um A lot of technical seo stuff sort of the Whole Spectrum of things and then i did a lot Of content updates after i removed old
Content I updated a lot of uh core content as Well And and uh then in december with the Update My traffic is definitely come back And now just as of like this week i’m Finally like At where i was at may and It’s trending up so i hope you know if Things keep going you know i’ll be Higher than i was in may and so I don’t have an answer i don’t know why Exactly my site was hit But i sort of did the whole spectrum to Improve the site Yes the best practices yeah cleaning Things up removing all like uh Outdated content in a way that’s stuff Technically the stuff that if you had Infinite time you would have been doing That throughout your your kind of Progression Anyway exactly yeah things just Accumulate over time and so If anybody’s listening that they’re Trying to you know recover from a google Core update like There’s not an exact answer usually you Just kind of got to do everything Technical seo on-page seo you know Clean up content everything and and Hopefully when the next Core update comes out you know you get
The traffic back Makes sense i agree it’s like following The best practices yes Um okay i want to finish on two things It’s like if you have to do another case Study tomorrow What is one thing that you did on own The yacht that you would not do again Ah let’s see Um well i already kind of mentioned it Maybe this is the easy answer but I i don’t think i’d do an amazon Affiliate site Okay i think i’d i’d make a different Affiliate program one that i felt like Uh um i wasn’t gonna get my Commission rate cut uh and what’s one Thing you would do more of Boy you know i have to think through Like because i i I could see a case study being Specifically like More link building right like i could Just write less content More link building that might be an Interesting case study just publish a Site that’s 30 articles and just do a Ton of links So maybe that uh or i could do the other Route of just way more content uh or Maybe a case study that’s more pinterest Focused like i’ve done Stuff on pinterest but maybe something Where i just like
Scale the crap out of pinterest like 100 Pins a day and Let’s see what happens can i give you a Suggestion so i know you’re You’re you’re like working with like You’re essentially just promoting Services etc in the industry right what I would do as a case study Is i would partner with audis.global They’re like a pretty good uh expired Domain kind of mind you’re probably Familiar with them and i would do a case Study where you pick up one of their Domains and you build zero links and you Just do content That could be interesting and i think And be like can you replace Like you know because i agree with what You said you know you said like oh the First few links they are really Important you reach a certain level of Authority and then it’s kind of like There’s a diminishing return to the Extremes you’re building especially in More consumer focused niche rights like If you’re looking at online marketing Yes you need dr 70 plus or something If you’re looking at you know like Gardening stuff etc you can do some Damage with the dr25 solid site you know Um and uh and so it’d be nice if you Literally picked up that dr25 saudi site On day one And be like can i just focus on the
Content if i pick up that i think that The audience would like that that would Be an interesting i think you would get A nice partner as well they would Definitely pay for you to feature Yeah yep so that’s my suggestion like if We don’t do this but like uh i would Suggest Yeah no i i agree and i know who they Are Um and uh there’s anyone else Yeah it’s just i i think it’s a good Strategy and honestly when people come And talk to me Um they ask how should i get started my Answer now Usually is go buy a site that’s making a Little bit of money that has a little Bit of traction Even if it’s only making a couple Hundred bucks a month like you know it’s Ranking in google It’s you know you’ve skipped that whole First year Of um and so that i that would be a Great case study Um i know i have two friends right now That it Essentially did that they bought Existing sites One was more just kind of an expired Domain that had authority They scaled a ton of content it’s now Doing you know twenty thousand dollars a
Month Uh after about a year and a half um The other person i won’t go into all the Details but he bought an existing skype Site and he’s just he scaled it like Crazy so There’s a lot of really cool examples of People doing Kind of what you’re talking about yeah Okay cool Uh mark do you have any other questions Or anything you want to ask You are muted i can’t i guess he doesn’t Want to ask anything Sorry my daughter thank you so much my Dog was barking in the background and i Didn’t want to interrupt you uh No no further questions awesome all Right well Spencer uh any question for us or Something like any i do wanna like uh Maybe we’ll give you one shot at like Firing back you know um Before we close it uh since we’re Talking about case studies are you guys Gonna do any new case studies public Uh we did the new one in the authority Site system right the case studies Essentially with the course Um so there’s a new site that we Released in november so it’s pretty new I guess Um so we’re gonna focus on that uh we’re Probably gonna make it more of a living
Case study than we have done in the past For the other ones where we just build Them and kind of like be like okay this Is what your site should look like at The end Uh we have an active editorial team on It et cetera so Um yeah yeah we’re not making it public We’re making it i guess something public For the people who are in your thoughts Make sense um so that’s i want to Do something i’m sure you feel the same But Because you start a public case study It creates this kind of weird incentive Where at times I’m sure it makes much more sense for You to focus on Niche pursuits or some of your other More profitable sites but because you Have this public case study And you know you’ve got that report Coming out at the end of the month that You have to your kind of Credibility is almost staked on it in a Way so you have to kind of Make sure it’s it’s good it’s Progressing even though It’s not the best most optimal thing for You And i i hate that concept like we we Really like Felt felt the wrath it’s a headache when We we’ve done it
In the past with uh health ambition a Previous public case study we did we did I’m not convinced that we will do like Public public Month by month case studies like that We do have a project in the works at the Moment which is like Coming to fruition shall we say um and We’re Potentially we’ll do like a breakdown of It like after we sell it after what’s Happening yeah Yeah stuff have we definitely decided if That’s the that’s the route we want to Go But i think those kind of things so it’s Kind of it’s not a full case study in In the way that you’ve done it with on The yard yeah yeah It would be kind of an after the fat Case study Yeah we’ve done that like two years ago Already which had like one of the sites We built and sold you know so It would be kind of similar yeah so i Think that’s what you can expect from us Publicly And then a bit more of a live case study Inside the course Uh it allows us also to reduce the Audience to reduce the amount of Copycats etc like you know how it works Yes Um so it’s like you know i know if we do
The public It would get a lot of attention um but At the same time uh i agree with mine It comes with a lot of baggage it’s a Headache it’s a lot of work it’s Stressful Um and so if i were to predict right now Uh i don’t know that i’m gonna do Another public case study i’ve done Four um over the past ten years And it is it’s it’s a lot of work it’s Stressful I’m relieved honestly that you know the Site’s making three four thousand Dollars a month I can call it good in that regard uh You know i’ll keep reporting every six Months or whatever On the site and probably eventually sell It and so i don’t even have to think About it Uh but i don’t know that i’ll do another One we’ll see you know i’m not gonna Close the door the thing as well is uh Even though you’ve been successful four Times already so i think you’ve shown That you can do It’s not just luck right you can do this Multiple times uh i think even if you Failed one people would really hold it Against you and it would actually Like cost you a lot of reputation kind Of even though like you probably have a Lot of products that work well on the
Side that you’re not necessarily sharing Publicly et cetera And so it’s it’s always it’s almost like The stakes get higher every time That’s true yeah the stakes weren’t very High when i first started right i didn’t Really have much of an audience Exactly now i’ve already got the Audience you know am i going to be Losing more people than i’m gaining so Yeah yeah and and i think it’s a reality Of things that a lot of people Understand but a lot of people don’t Understand that Projects do fail and it’s okay and it’s Like it happens and it’s or sometimes it Doesn’t work as well as you expected Or something like this we’ve had many of These and i’m sure it happened as well And uh yeah okay uh well that was your Question Thank you spencer uh thank you for Joining uh i hope you had a little bit Of fun i hope people who listen to have A little bit of fun And uh also you have a podcast on each Process where you interview people so People can go check that out on the Audio and you have that on youtube as Well now That’s correct um so people can go check That out you have a free facebook group If i’m not wrong that’s correct you have A motion invest
And you have link whisper that people Can check on top of a niche process And well we’re gonna wrap it up so thank You everyone for joining and we’ll see Everyone next week Bye thanks a lot guys great talking to [Music] You [Music] You